RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
Pottsie

Otaki Gone

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5 hours ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said:

That's called light drizzle down our way

Light drizzle just up the road too. We'd had a total of 23.4 mms just up the road since it started yesterday afternoon by scratching time this morning. Not a puddle in sight. Foxton would have provided first class footing.

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6 hours ago, crustyngrizzly said:

In the book GALLOPING GREATS written by John Costello he asks Sid Brown if he thought improvements could be made to make the NZ racing scene more competitive with Aussie.

''Yes,i am sure that if racing clubs would amalgamate then the owners and trainers would have better tracks,better conditions and most important better prize money.

There is too much money going into stands and facilities on small,unsafe and uneconomic tracks'''

Don't really know if those comments apply in todays conditions.

All good but unfortunately Clubs like ours spend nothing on facilities - it is all volunteer labour as is the track management (which is why we are financially viable if not enthusiasm viable) . We scrub the birdshit off the grandstand ouselves. I doubt we or our track will last and to be fair recognise it is not up to standard (purely because of its circumference not for any other reason) but NZ racing will not be one cent better off if we fold.  Indeed when the $10k of sponsorship goes out the door it will be worse.

Still it is coming and will not be a good day but I don't want some tosser in Wellington or Auckland telling me we are finished.

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5 minutes ago, Shad said:

Also i hear there is a debate over the proposed rating system put forward by the council, maybe the final nail.

Well there are more people than us debating that change but the rates as proposed go from $1,900pa to $8,000+pa. There will be compromise there I am sure.

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Just now, TOM(the other Molloy) said:

Well there are more people than us debating that change but the rates as proposed go from $1,900pa to $8,000+pa. There will be compromise there I am sure.

My sources tell me the yokels are doing their prunes over proposed changes, especially business, who are being hit the hardest.Good on them.

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3 hours ago, von Smallhaussen said:

eureeka heres the answer - if a club can't attract a field of 10 or more for each race they stage  .... they don't race next year! B)

 

Interestingly Von, as Tom may remember, many years ago clubs were asked to explain what had happened it they ended up with very poor fields and/or terrible turnover.

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56 minutes ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said:

All good but unfortunately Clubs like ours spend nothing on facilities - it is all volunteer labour as is the track management (which is why we are financially viable if not enthusiasm viable) . We scrub the birdshit off the grandstand ouselves. I doubt we or our track will last and to be fair recognise it is not up to standard (purely because of its circumference not for any other reason) but NZ racing will not be one cent better off if we fold.  Indeed when the $10k of sponsorship goes out the door it will be worse.

Still it is coming and will not be a good day but I don't want some tosser in Wellington or Auckland telling me we are finished.

This is the key thing that so many people fail to appreciate. Many people think that if you close down some tracks you will get the double whammy benefit of being able to sell off their assets and invest the money elsewhere and at the same time all of the money that is being spent on those tracks will be freed up to be poured into Trentham etc. It is hard to see how this has worked at the many SI galloping clubs that have closed down altogether or moved elsewhere. Nelson, Westport, Geraldine, Hororata, North Canterbury, Amberley, Waimate, Beaumont, Tapanui etc have hardly been shining examples of the benefits of amalgamation and rationalisation. Likewise Levin, Masterton etc, etc.

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11 hours ago, We're Doomed said:

This is the key thing that so many people fail to appreciate. Many people think that if you close down some tracks you will get the double whammy benefit of being able to sell off their assets and invest the money elsewhere and at the same time all of the money that is being spent on those tracks will be freed up to be poured into Trentham etc. It is hard to see how this has worked at the many SI galloping clubs that have closed down altogether or moved elsewhere. Nelson, Westport, Geraldine, Hororata, North Canterbury, Amberley, Waimate, Beaumont, Tapanui etc have hardly been shining examples of the benefits of amalgamation and rationalisation. Likewise Levin, Masterton etc, etc.

Great post WD, it's like groundhog day here some times. 

Why would you want to close down venues that provide product to the industry i.e. horse numbers(despite what someone with a spreadsheet thinks those horse number at these smaller venues don't just up and move somewhere else they more than likely dissapear for good),cost the industry nothing to operate in fact are profitable from an industry perspective, you lose the community of factor of these venues as well with most of them having close ties to pony clubs and other equine related organisations that provide the horsemanship of the future and You can't just sell the venues and pocket the cash because they belong to the community.

What should happen imo is that some of these venues should be revitalised by getting more race dates or as trial venues it would not hurt the industry an iota for that to happen, centralisation hasn't worked and it'll continue to do the industry harm if its something the industry is actively seeking, many of the current tracks can't handle the amount of racing they have had and that'll get worse not better in the future.

I don't think the facilities matter anymore for racing below premier level , its all about providing a product that punters can have confidence in when backing horses and something that looks good on TV or streamed over the internet i.e. its about the track.

Look at Australia they have a strong provincial base and utilise their metropolitan venues for the premier level of racing(i.e. mostly Saturday) with the provincial centres providing product and support at an industry level.

imo It would be a disaster for  nzracing if the smaller centres went by the way side. 

Can people stop thinking they are geniuses by continuously advocating for the closure of the smaller venues across the country, I can't see how its a good thing for the industry. 

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I recall when that light weight show Weigh In had Greg Purcell on. Tan and KFE tried to make him look foolish (which usually was not difficult) over what they perceived as too many racetracks. Well Purcell made them look like total idiots as Tan in particular had not done his home work. Tan thought that the Clubs were owned by NZTR who should  shut them down.

On another occassion Purcell mentioned on radio that Auckland was  our biggest club and it was also NZTR's biggest liability because for the large amount of stakes forked out for little  return  in terms of betting on Auckland meetings.

 

 

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Leave racing clubs all over the place and rural... without the ability to pay for the skilled folk required to look after them. The world is always a changing place and fond memories of the past are great, but failing to replicate them does not make for fond memories in the future... have a look at the average age of our community minded folk who are keeping the current situation alive with their valued voluntary contributions. Where is the understory to come through that canopy?

Why not think of rural NZ communities with churches closing, banks gone, post offices gone, police gone, schools closed...you may see this as a bad thing, but it is a reality and racing not being a part of this movement means that the hole gets deeper and deeper each year for the future of racing. This is a technological age and the change in our rural communities has been obvious since 1950's - folk live where there is work and the old club structure with separate ownership and control is not serving the racing world that has to also move and adapt to the current world. 

It is a Mulberry bush, until people who can make the overhaul required do it.

I don't have that ability so for my part, I will start to move my race horsing to Australia, as many others already have... where the rural racing communities are supported by the metropolitan racing that draws big crowds and big community/ marketing support. The costs over there are no longer significantly higher than here - but at least I can get a horse to the races and enjoy watching it in the comfort of my home.

Why wouldn't the genuis' move to Wellington when parochial thinking in the provinces is the best you can put forward... Let's hope some of them care about our breeding and racing industry!

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4 minutes ago, Race said:

I don't have that ability so for my part, I will start to move my race horsing to Australia, as many others already have... where the rural racing communities are supported by the metropolitan racing that draws big crowds and big community/ marketing support. The costs over there are no longer significantly higher than here - but at least I can get a horse to the races and enjoy watching it in the comfort of my home.

 

The single biggest issue is that Racing in NZ does not have wide public support, minimal govt/local council interest in it etc. Not opening race gambling up for competition in the 80's like everything else has been the biggest error made, the benefits gained in Aus from corporate sponsorship & advertising have been significant. Your assertion that racing is being stymied by small rural clubs would hold some credibility if these clubs were operating at a loss, the fact that the vast majority of them are not is a credit to the efforts of the volunteers. If we followed your thinking to its logical conclusion there would be no racing south of Hamilton.

 

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18 hours ago, Tauhei Notts said:

Have Waimate moved?

Feilding and Rangitikei might be exceptions to the Rule.

Waimate is still going - a horrendous wind storm in Sept/Oct 2013 wiped out the grandstand and jockey’s rooms and office. They have held their date by racing at Oamaru, but fully intend to return to Waimate once the facilities are replaced.

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It’s good that many country clubs want to keep going and are supported by the local community. However the debacle over cancelled race days - caused by health and safety concerns over unsatisfactory surfaces, and the previous valid points raised by ‘race’ concerning the reason for the decline in other rural communities facilities, means we have to face up to the fact we have far too many race courses in these changed times. To minimise cancellations we need to rationalise the number of race day tracks where the travelling time between current tracks is ( because of better roads and better cars) no more than an hour. As has been previously proposed on this forum, establishing several new state of the art track venues in strategic locations (eg Waikato) which replace current tracks within 60 minutes drive of the new facility would have little negative effect on ‘locals’ and be of great benefit in encouraging the current and next generation of people to attend and become interested. To me it looks like those who can’t see this is necessary will have to accept that it will be forced upon them, not by the racing hierarchy, but by the Work Safe NZ legislation which is highlighting how deficient many of our tracks are. Climate change is going to exacerbate the issue.

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6 minutes ago, bazach said:

It’s good that many country clubs want to keep going and are supported by the local community. However the debacle over cancelled race days - caused by health and safety concerns over unsatisfactory surfaces, and the previous valid points raised by ‘race’ concerning the reason for the decline in other rural communities facilities, means we have to face up to the fact we have far too many race courses in these changed times. To minimise cancellations we need to rationalise the number of race day tracks where the travelling time between current tracks is ( because of better roads and better cars) no more than an hour. As has been previously proposed on this forum, establishing several new state of the art track venues in strategic locations (eg Waikato) which replace current tracks within 60 minutes drive of the new facility would have little negative effect on ‘locals’ and be of great benefit in encouraging the current and next generation of people to attend and become interested. To me it looks like those who can’t see this is necessary will have to accept that it will be forced upon them, not by the racing hierarchy, but by the Work Safe NZ legislation which is highlighting how deficient many of our tracks are. Climate change is going to exacerbate the issue.

At least half the abandonments aren’t from small rural clubs so your point is irrelevant. Ellerslie and Palmy up to standard are they ?

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9 minutes ago, bazach said:

It’s good that many country clubs want to keep going and are supported by the local community. However the debacle over cancelled race days - caused by health and safety concerns over unsatisfactory surfaces, and the previous valid points raised by ‘race’ concerning the reason for the decline in other rural communities facilities, means we have to face up to the fact we have far too many race courses in these changed times. To minimise cancellations we need to rationalise the number of race day tracks where the travelling time between current tracks is ( because of better roads and better cars) no more than an hour. As has been previously proposed on this forum, establishing several new state of the art track venues in strategic locations (eg Waikato) which replace current tracks within 60 minutes drive of the new facility would have little negative effect on ‘locals’ and be of great benefit in encouraging the current and next generation of people to attend and become interested. To me it looks like those who can’t see this is necessary will have to accept that it will be forced upon them, not by the racing hierarchy, but by the Work Safe NZ legislation which is highlighting how deficient many of our tracks are. Climate change is going to exacerbate the issue.

So are you suggesting no tracks in places like Auck and Wgtn which have population but no horses?

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13 hours ago, bazach said:

It’s good that many country clubs want to keep going and are supported by the local community. However the debacle over cancelled race days - caused by health and safety concerns over unsatisfactory surfaces, and the previous valid points raised by ‘race’ concerning the reason for the decline in other rural communities facilities, means we have to face up to the fact we have far too many race courses in these changed times. To minimise cancellations we need to rationalise the number of race day tracks where the travelling time between current tracks is ( because of better roads and better cars) no more than an hour. As has been previously proposed on this forum, establishing several new state of the art track venues in strategic locations (eg Waikato) which replace current tracks within 60 minutes drive of the new facility would have little negative effect on ‘locals’ and be of great benefit in encouraging the current and next generation of people to attend and become interested. To me it looks like those who can’t see this is necessary will have to accept that it will be forced upon them, not by the racing hierarchy, but by the Work Safe NZ legislation which is highlighting how deficient many of our tracks are. Climate change is going to exacerbate the issue.

Ellerslie, Te Rapa, Hastings,Awapuni they have all had meetings canned in recent years those venues are no different to the smaller venues you're pointing your finger at. The laughable thing about those venues is that when their meetings get called off  or postponed we have too many tracks - go figure!

It's all very well to say we need state of the art this and that , but in the mean time we still have an industry to run and still have to find a way to get the best out of what we currently have. So we should be trying to get the best out of what we currently have. The Calendar optimisation project is an excuse to centralise and it hasn't and won't work because its done on a spreadsheet in an office and not at ground level to try to maximise the use of the current assets available in the industry i.e. the tracks and clubs available.

Let's face it the too many track argument is a feeble excuse to fund this state of the art facilities as you put it and it just won't happen . NZracing is not set up in this simplistic form that would just allow it to happen. I'm all for some state of the art facilities and I'd be willing to take some pain to see that happen for the benefit of NZracing but we need to have some fairly robust discussion about what those entities should be and where they should be. I find the need to have them in populated areas an insignificant argument and the need to have them where they can best serve NZracing i.e. surface of track, climate,facilities etc a more important discussion to take place.

 

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22 hours ago, barryb said:

The single biggest issue is that Racing in NZ does not have wide public support, minimal govt/local council interest in it etc. Not opening race gambling up for competition in the 80's like everything else has been the biggest error made, the benefits gained in Aus from corporate sponsorship & advertising have been significant. Your assertion that racing is being stymied by small rural clubs would hold some credibility if these clubs were operating at a loss, the fact that the vast majority of them are not is a credit to the efforts of the volunteers. If we followed your thinking to its logical conclusion there would be no racing south of Hamilton.

 

You bring up a great point barryb I think the real issue here isn't that a lot of rural/smaller clubs are operating in surplus or break even but that the major clubs with paid staff, plenty of race days etc are operating at a loss, that begs me to ask the question are those being paid to run the larger clubs "adding value" to those clubs if they are continuously operating at a loss in this environment?

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6 minutes ago, von Smallhaussen said:

NZRB relies on punters for survival - yet they won't take a punt themselves and put up the money for this badly needed first class facility that is required.

The industry relies on punters , the industry has been operating in a negligent form for the past 30 years unfortunately  it isn't going to happen over night.

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