RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
jimbob

head to head bet Race 5 Matamata

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Race  5 at Matamata today the jockey clearly stopped riding Neddy Naddeem  when the horse inside was in a head to head bet with this horse (Hatrick Boys)

The Stipendary stewartds need to act and act with integrity and lay down the gauntlet to A Collett 

 

Punters like myself have lost  on a jockey who has clearly stopped rideing

 

If i dont read anything in the stipes report I will be emailing the RIU

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They were both out of the money so unless she had a bet on the other horse in the H2H market and deliberately rode to get beaten by Hatrick Boys (a la David Walker) then she has done nothing wrong.  As far as I'm aware, jockeys have an obligation to ride their mounts out if they have a chance of finishing in the money, but no obligation to ride their horse out to win the H2H bets?  Do they even know that they are in the H2H option?

That's the problem with H2H bets and the risk you take when you place a H2H bet.  

I enjoy the odd H2H bet but there are certain jockeys I won't back in a H2H bet because I know if their mount has no chance of finishing in the money, they are more likely to ease them down than ride them out.

I suspect your email to the RIU will be in vain.

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1 minute ago, The Crucible said:

They were both out of the money so unless she had a bet on the other horse in the H2H market and deliberately rode to get beaten by Hatrick Boys (a la David Walker) then she has done nothing wrong.  As far as I'm aware, jockeys have an obligation to ride their mounts out if they have a chance of finishing in the money, but no obligation to ride their horse out to win the H2H bets?  Do they even know that they are in the H2H option?

That's the problem with H2H bets and the risk you take when you place a H2H bet.  

I enjoy the odd H2H bet but there are certain jockeys I won't back in a H2H bet because I know if their mount has no chance of finishing in the money, they are more likely to ease them down than ride them out.

I suspect your email to the RIU will be in vain.

If this is the case H 2 H betting needs to be stopped,  I am taking this straight to the top 

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1 minute ago, jimbob said:

If this is the case H 2 H betting needs to be stopped,  I am taking this straight to the top 

Good luck with that. 

An alternative is that you could stop betting on H2H and those of us who are willing to take this risk can continue to use this option.

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Guest 2Admin2

H2H is a crap bet and should be stopped.  As should all the other fancy betting options.  Open to manipulation and abuse.

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You have left it incredibly late in the piece, but that could probably qualify as the stupidest post of the year. I bet one or two others are pissed off who thought they might have had that honour sown up.

She was still riding it out at the 200, despite the horse looking gone at the turn, and only stopped hitting it when the gaps closed in front of it. It was never going to do better than about 6th anyhow.

You can't expect a jockey to know they are involved in some head to head bet and have to keep trashing a horse if they are battling out last and 2nd last about 50 lengths off the winner.

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3 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:

You have left it incredibly late in the piece, but that could probably qualify as the stupidest post of the year. I bet one or two others are pissed off who thought they might have had that honour sown up.

She was still riding it out at the 200, despite the horse looking gone at the turn, and only stopped hitting it when the gaps closed in front of it. It was never going to do better than about 6th anyhow.

You can't expect a jockey to know they are involved in some head to head bet and have to keep trashing a horse if they are battling out last and 2nd last about 50 lengths off the winner.

Then why have that betting option if the jockey "doesn't know"?

David Walker comes to mind.

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43 minutes ago, barryb said:

Stop betting H2H Jimbob, its a losers option.

The house take on this betting is horrific and offers zero value.

I don't understand what you mean by this - the house take on this bet type is around 7.5% compared to around 15% on the tote and somewhere around 20% on final field win and place betting.

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6 minutes ago, 2Admin2 said:

Then why have that betting option if the jockey "doesn't know"?

David Walker comes to mind.

Problem is David Walker did know - he bet against his own mount and rode his horse to lose - it doesn't get much worse than that.

I'm fine with the H2H bet type, and I figure if people don't like their gimmicky options, then they should just ignore them.

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35 minutes ago, The Crucible said:

Problem is David Walker did know - he bet against his own mount and rode his horse to lose - it doesn't get much worse than that.

I'm fine with the H2H bet type, and I figure if people don't like their gimmicky options, then they should just ignore them.

These bets are anti horse welfare.  Why ride and whip the horse out so it can beat it's H2H competitor for last.

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36 minutes ago, The Crucible said:

Jockeys don't do that which is johnboy's gripe in the original post, and why I'm saying you take your chances with this type of bet

Ban the bet it is open to abuse and serves no purpose.

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42 minutes ago, hesi said:

636(1)(d) Fails to ride out to end of race. The starting point relates to the potential placing deemed to have been lost as a result of the breach.

1st – 5 weeks

2nd – 4 weeks

3rd – 3 weeks

4th – 2 weeks

5th – $300 fine

6th – 10th – $350 fine

Retain 1st to 5th starting points but change 6th - 10th to: Any other stakes or dividend bearing place - $200

That's interesting; so a $300 fine for missing 5th, which is often a stakes bearing place, but $350 fine for missing 6th.

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9 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:

That's interesting; so a $350 fine for missing 5th, which is often a stakes bearing place, but $350 fine for missing 6th.

It's crap.  

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4 hours ago, jimbob said:

Race  5 at Matamata today the jockey clearly stopped riding Neddy Naddeem  when the horse inside was in a head to head bet with this horse (Hatrick Boys)

The Stipendary stewartds need to act and act with integrity and lay down the gauntlet to A Collett 

 

Punters like myself have lost  on a jockey who has clearly stopped rideing

 

If i dont read anything in the stipes report I will be emailing the RIU

Admin....can you please organise to put up another imojo that we can click on eg fuckwit...poor looser....tosser etc :-)

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2 hours ago, The Crucible said:

I don't understand what you mean by this - the house take on this bet type is around 7.5% compared to around 15% on the tote and somewhere around 20% on final field win and place betting.

You are taking the piss I know.

Firstly you have compared bet types that are not remotely linked other than they are in the same sport. If you had compared a tennis match or a golf h2h. market then yes I could understand.

7.50% is horrible, when the industry average is around 5% & plenty of markets can get down close to 2.5%. 

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23 minutes ago, barryb said:

You are taking the piss I know.

Firstly you have compared bet types that are not remotely linked other than they are in the same sport. If you had compared a tennis match or a golf h2h. market then yes I could understand.

7.50% is horrible, when the industry average is around 5% & plenty of markets can get down close to 2.5%. 

I'm not comparing to other sports (I like to bet on horse racing), and I'm not comparing to industry averages - I know our bookies are gutless compared to overseas counterparts.

I'm just saying that your expected return on a H2H bet is 92.5% (or a 7.5% loss) which is significantly better than your expected return on a tote or final field bet.

If you bet black or red (or odd or even) on a roulette wheel with two green slots then your expected return is just below 95% (or 5% loss).  Add two more green slots to the roulette wheel and your expected return is 90% (or a 10% loss).  I wouldn't play either wheel but if I had to, it's pretty obvious which one to choose.

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7 hours ago, napier said:

Admin....can you please organise to put up another imojo that we can click on eg fuckwit...poor looser....tosser etc :-)

your the fuckwit 

I have every right to bring this up. why should i lose my money because the jockey clearly stopped riding the horse. 

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Good Morning RIU (email sent)
 
 
I would like to put forward a situation in which racing and been brought into disrepute
 
The TAB offered a head to head bet Race 5 Matamata between 
 
Number 9 Hatrick Boys and Number 1 Neddy Nadeem
 
A head to head option in racing is absolutely no difference between a head to head bet between  The All Blacks and South Africa
 
 
The Punters are expecting the participants  in the head to head to put everything into winning  the option
 
Clearly Alysia Collett Stopped riding her horse well before the line, this enabled Hatrick Boys along the inside to get his nose in front.
 
The stipendairy report  is incorrect in saying Neddy Nadeem was running out of a little bit of room in the concluding stages.
Neddy Nadeem was running out of a little bit of room at about the 200metre mark, but had plenty of room to be ridden out over the concluding stages.
 
Failing this to happen by Alysia Collett has given the 7th position in the race to Hatrick Boys
 
Please watch the replay
Kind Regards
 

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Just now, jimbob said:
Good Morning RIU (email sent)
 
 
I would like to put forward a situation in which racing and been brought into disrepute
 
The TAB offered a head to head bet Race 5 Matamata between 
 
Number 9 Hatrick Boys and Number 1 Neddy Nadeem
 
A head to head option in racing is absolutely no difference between a head to head bet between  The All Blacks and South Africa
 
 
The Punters are expecting the participants  in the head to head to put everything into winning  the option
 
Clearly Alysia Collett Stopped riding her horse well before the line, this enabled Hatrick Boys along the inside to get his nose in front.
 
The stipendairy report  is incorrect in saying Neddy Nadeem was running out of a little bit of room in the concluding stages.
Neddy Nadeem was running out of a little bit of room at about the 200metre mark, but had plenty of room to be ridden out over the concluding stages.
 
Failing this to happen by Alysia Collett has given the 7th position in the race to Hatrick Boys
 
Please watch the replay
Kind Regards
 

My next email will be to the TAB, then work my way up

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Hi Jimbob, From my experience, it helps if you take the view" it is what it is" and either get involved in this option or steer clear. I have bet on this option for some years now and nearly seen it all. Look at race 3 yesterday when Matt Cameron was riding one of the H2H options which was second favourite for the race and he rode a couple of hundred metres before pulling it up -done my dough and cost me plenty as I got the other 3 legs of my H2H poker multi home. If you can accept that you will get swings and roundabouts you can enjoy the ups and laugh at the downs. While the option appears to be wide open to abuse if the jockeys want to get involved, the options are not released until quite close to the start of each meeting so it would be quite difficult for jockeys or trainers to manipulate results in a wide spread manner. Several times Trudy Thornton and Samantha Collett have ridden the 2 options and I could not question the integrity of any of their rides from memory. how easy would it be for them to collude?

I have mentioned once before on this forum (it just seems timely to repeat the story to support my point) a memory of a race at Te Rapa a couple of years ago now where Noel Harris and Sam Spratt were on the 2 H2H horses.I had an investment on the H@H in this race so was watching closely. At the 800m mark, noels horse must have been feeling scratchy so he took a hold and I thought - there goes the family benefit. But 100m further on and Sam's horse also has an issue and she takes a hold. Believe it or not they trotted down the final 100m together chatting away and Noel crossed the line half a head in front and they paid out.  It's either your cup of tea or it's not.

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