RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
MrBigStuff

Clean Up Your Act says Winnie

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11 minutes ago, Emotive said:

And how many trainers live in the Taranaki? 

 

Hmmm.

My responses to this are one of the following

 - are you trying to out me on the forum??

-  There must be 5 or 6 but I don't know because I wouldn't know how to find out and they've never made contact or tried to join the local group.

-  Its irrelevant, there is a perfectly good road, a lovely drive and lots of trainers just a couple of hours down the road. Sorry I forgot, availability is dictated by physical location. What is the maximum distance a trainer will travel to attend a gap event?. Then I can draw a circle on the map and figure out how many trainers are in the circle and invite them. Not that I should have to invite them because many will call up as they are keen to attend. :o

- Emotive. I actually think we are on the same side but jeez somebody needs to say something to wake them from their slumber. After all the debacle in Australia over the last three years you'd have thought the industry on this side of the tasman would be onto it by now,  but the comments on this forum by some indicate that's clearly not the case.

-  Emotive. I feel like I should know you. 

- Emotive, you should be more emotive!! :)

By the way, someone made a comment that they hadn't seen a bad comment about volunteers. Not that I should be reading the GPL Facebook page  or take them seriously but one David Lloyd has called GAP the scum of greyhound rehoming outfits. Nice!!

:)

 

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1 minute ago, 1066 said:

Hmmm.

My responses to this are one of the following

 - are you trying to out me on the forum??

-  There must be 5 or 6 but I don't know because I wouldn't know how to find out and they've never made contact or tried to join the local group.

-  Its irrelevant, there is a perfectly good road, a lovely drive and lots of trainers just a couple of hours down the road. Sorry I forgot, availability is dictated by physical location. What is the maximum distance a trainer will travel to attend a gap event?. Then I can draw a circle on the map and figure out how many trainers are in the circle and invite them. Not that I should have to invite them because many will call up as they are keen to attend. :o

- Emotive. I actually think we are on the same side but jeez somebody needs to say something to wake them from their slumber. After all the debacle in Australia over the last three years you'd have thought the industry on this side of the tasman would be onto it by now,  but the comments on this forum by some indicate that's clearly not the case.

-  Emotive. I feel like I should know you. 

- Emotive, you should be more emotive!! :)

By the way, someone made a comment that they hadn't seen a bad comment about volunteers. Not that I should be reading the GPL Facebook page  or take them seriously but one David Lloyd has called GAP the scum of greyhound rehoming outfits. Nice!!

:)

 

Not trying to out anyone. It was a valid question. Taranaki is a large area, if there are less than six trainers in that area then that would have a bearing on numbers attending GAP events would it not. If those trainers also work fulltime and some do, then that further reduces availability to attend GAP events, yes? To say what you did without knowledge of the subject matter or any people involved is inflammatory, is it not? To assume those trainers have never attended or supported an area that their dogs were rehomed to, an area outside the Taranaki and make the original statement is a little misleading. I have three dogs in the Taranaki, two of the adoptees never made contact. One I am in constant contact with. I'm not going to the Taranaki GAP events, instead, support local rehomers. They may support another area.

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I'll answer these one at a time (after my attempt at humour obviously failed). 

- Nope, Taranaki is not a large area. About one hour to anywhere from anywhere. We recently attended the Stratford A&P show, smack damn in the middle of Taranaki. Probably 30 minutes drive maximum for 100,000 people.

- one trainer or 10 trainers none have made contact and attended in 5 or 6 years. Zero is zero.

- Virtually all events are on weekends and virtually all volunteers work fulltime and they make it, so again nope. Many of them over and over again. So over 5 to 6 years you would think maybe one trainer would volunteer to join a GAP roster at a Taranaki event.

- Not sure what you mean by not knowing the subject matter and therefore being inflammatory . I have been involved in every GAP event in Taranaki in the last 5 to 6 years and can quite genuinely say no Taranaki trainer has volunteered to join in on a GAP event in Taranaki during that time. So inflammatory no, factual correct. I say this will full openness and it being my current knowledge and understanding. If I am incorrect, and I sincerely believe I am not, then please feel free to correct me. Having said that  if one has, than even one is not a good number over that many years but I know the other volunteers well so would be mighty surprised.

- not misleading. The issue is about trainers attending GAP events in Taranaki and I sincerely believe none have in Taranaki. Nothing in my comments is about trainers not supporting people who have adopted their hounds directly or through other rehoming agencies. If that's what you have done, awesome.

 

and if I have self outed myself by answering these questions in the way I have so be it (which was probably the intent of E.) then so be it. :)

 

 

 

 

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Wow. Your comment was that trainers generally don't give a shit. Have you actually invited any trainer to attend an event?. Are they even aware there are events? I have never been invited to a GAP event, the only way I would know they were happening would be via an area FB page. I actually don't know who you are, but I read your previous posts which gave a clue to what area you were from. Talk about paranoia. Would anyone want to attend a GAP event when they were thought of so poorly, I wouldn't?

 

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If anyone has been kicked in the teeth over the last few months it is the greyhound, trainers, owners, breeders and rearers. They have been subject to innuendo, supposition, slander and gossip. I have many friends within the industry who have all been painted with the one brush, while a vociferous few ruin rampant feeding on each others theories. Oh how I hate the silent majority.

     I also am  also disgusted at  our sport. Disgusted that so many honest, hard working, caring, animal lovers have been tainted. Disgusted also that much of that tainting has come from within

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3 hours ago, Emotive said:

Wow. Your comment was that trainers generally don't give a shit. Have you actually invited any trainer to attend an event?. Are they even aware there are events? I have never been invited to a GAP event, the only way I would know they were happening would be via an area FB page. I actually don't know who you are, but I read your previous posts which gave a clue to what area you were from. Talk about paranoia. Would anyone want to attend a GAP event when they were thought of so poorly, I wouldn't?

 

Not sure what the wow moment is there. Nope I haven't invited any.. Why not? As stated earlier I don't know who they are and how to find them. I did think your point was that most trainers cared so much they would come forward anyway. How would they be aware of these events? They would go to the gap website and look at all the events listed, or ask to join their local gap Facebook group, or contact the local regional coordinator who are listed on the gap website or send an email to the national coordinator  or even contact GRNZ .... If they really really wanted to they could find a way of getting involved, they could. 

 I don't see how paranoia comes into it, it's not paranoid to state facts about trainer partipation in gap events. Finally as none are currently attending I can't see how what I thought of them would make any difference......and by the way all are welcome, trainers, public, greyhound owners etc. cause it's about homing greyhounds, not what we may think of each other.

getting back to my trainers don't give a shit comment. I'm glad it evoked a response,it was meant to  because the public don't see xxx amount of trainers being good and xxx amount being bad. They see all trainers as one collective group responsible for  xxxx amount of greyhounds being killed. I'm not saying that's right but that's the reality.  The challenge is how you change the public perception and that's going to be very hard to do.

 

 

 

 

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The only way, in my opinion, to clean up the industry is by putting a limit on how many dogs are breed a year in NZ, how many dogs each person can breed, how many dogs are imported and how many dogs each trainer can race in NZ. Its clear GAP cannot rehome every greyhound racing in NZ (and that is no insult to gap. I just can't see how they can rehome an extra 1500 greyhounds a year). So if you cant put much more pressure on GAP, than you must look at ways to lower the number of dogs being breed. They already have similar rules in several states in Australia so I cant see why we cant follow suit. I'm sure it won't harm the industry cutting back on races as well.

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What a crazy post ATW. My guess is that NZ imports more greyhounds per number of trainers than any other greyhound racing country in the world. If you are looking at reducing numbers and at the same time create a sustainable industry in NZ the very first logical move would be to stop imports immediately, not stop the  breeding and developing a true NZ industry.

     It would soon separate the wheat from the chaff as you would see the real trainers come to the fore not the pseudo ones.

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2 minutes ago, GOM said:

What a crazy post ATW. My guess is that NZ imports more greyhounds per number of trainers than any other greyhound racing country in the world. If you are looking at reducing numbers and at the same time create a sustainable industry in NZ the very first logical move would be to stop imports immediately, not stop the  breeding and developing a true NZ industry.

     It would soon separate the wheat from the chaff as you would see the real trainers come to the fore not the pseudo ones.

so mike would you allow dogs to come over and race in the group ones

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1 minute ago, GOM said:

Yes, As long as they went back to the lucky country afterwards

naturally they would with all your prizemoney  whilst on the subject you would still allow semen in from aust,  also what happens if you get a very good dog and you want it sent to australia to race for all the big prizemoney

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13 minutes ago, GOM said:

You must remember also ATW that Aussies have put restrictions on breeding while doing the opposite to us, they reduce the load on GAP AU by overloading GAP NZ

Idt the numbers sent here are easing the pressure in Australia. I did say limit the imports as well as the breeding. The current breeding regimes in NZ is unsustainable.

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26 minutes ago, gary1 said:

naturally they would with all your prizemoney  whilst on the subject you would still allow semen in from aust,  also what happens if you get a very good dog and you want it sent to australia to race for all the big prizemoney

It would go under the same circumstances as the one coming over here to compete then go home again.

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18 minutes ago, alltheway!!! said:

Idt the numbers sent here are easing the pressure in Australia. I did say limit the imports as well as the breeding. The current breeding regimes in NZ is unsustainable.

Why only some of the imports? If the breeding here is unsustainable it is only because of the imports. We had an industry before they flooded in and there is plenty of evidence it was better than we have now e.g mostly middle distance or further racing

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41 minutes ago, GOM said:

It would go under the same circumstances as the one coming over here to compete then go home again.

no my point is that it went over to race with an aussie trainer

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35 minutes ago, GOM said:

Why only some of the imports? If the breeding here is unsustainable it is only because of the imports. We had an industry before they flooded in and there is plenty of evidence it was better than we have now e.g mostly middle distance or further racing

yep and your industry then was it all kiwi bred dogs or was you using aust stud dogs

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43 minutes ago, GOM said:

Why only some of the imports? If the breeding here is unsustainable it is only because of the imports. We had an industry before they flooded in and there is plenty of evidence it was better than we have now e.g mostly middle distance or further racing

You are talking to dorks here, most cannot train let alone breed. They have no idea how to rear or educate. A good portion of NZ trainers are not trainers at all, they are just caretakers of ready made products from Australia. There are very few knowledgeable Trainers and Breeders in NZ. Most of whats bred in NZ is shit, incapable of running further than 300 mtrs, and the dogs they produce are weak physically resulting in lots of breakdowns.

Gone are the days of astute breeders that matched their Sire to compliment their Bitches weakness, now they just line up for a bottle of semen without even a thought about whether the mating will help eliminate the weakness's in the Dam line. Now its all about factory farming and a numbers game with the bigger breeders, and as for the backyard ones, they just mate up any old thing because its their favourite dog.

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1 hour ago, aquaman said:

You are talking to dorks here, most cannot train let alone breed. They have no idea how to rear or educate. A good portion of NZ trainers are not trainers at all, they are just caretakers of ready made products from Australia. There are very few knowledgeable Trainers and Breeders in NZ. Most of whats bred in NZ is shit, incapable of running further than 300 mtrs, and the dogs they produce are weak physically resulting in lots of breakdowns.

Gone are the days of astute breeders that matched their Sire to compliment their Bitches weakness, now they just line up for a bottle of semen without even a thought about whether the mating will help eliminate the weakness's in the Dam line. Now its all about factory farming and a numbers game with the bigger breeders, and as for the backyard ones, they just mate up any old thing because its their favourite dog.

Agree regarding trainers today. They just get sprinters and racing week in and out is all the training the dog needs. We bred a litter 20 yrs ago from a sprinter to a Aussie import middle distance dog and ended up with 5 of them in Silver Collar heats and 1 winning final. Never wanted to bred sprinters as they are boring. Do like Aussie and get rid of lot of sprint races and then trainers won't have so many dogs as you actually have to train middle and distance dogs not just empty them out day and night.

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Three gross an ignorant misconceptions here,

First by GOM, whilst it might be true NZ import more greyhounds per trainer than any other country, if you were to think of NZ of a state of Australasia, states like SA, WA and NT would rank a lot higher than NZ, and probably Tasmania as well. If imports between 'states' was stopped as you suggest, SA, WA and NT would more than struggle to maintain current racing programmes. I'm not saying NZ would but the standard would considerably drop.

Second again by GOM, to say that it's GAP dogs from Aus coming over an clogging the nz gap system is rediculous. If that was the case give me Wheelers, or Cantys or  Tulios or Thompsons numbers an id love to train their GAP dogs. These are astute business people and wouldn't be paying the thousands of dollars to send over if they didn't think they could make a profit off them.

The third by Seddon does have some truth to it. He states 'do like the Aussies and get rid of lot of sprint races...' As a basic rule, (though not every meeting), 450 dogs WILL have preference to race, however such is the shortage of these dogs, meetings contain plenty of shorts is very common. Compare Geelong tonight to Hatrick where both meetings an formed using highest grades downward. 6 shorts vs 8. I saw a 10 race card (due to lack of noms) at Cannington a couple of weeks back only had 3 520m races. The rest were 380s or 297. NZ isn't the only place where the breed is weaker...

 

Regards. James

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17 minutes ago, Sheepy said:

Three gross an ignorant misconceptions here,

First by GOM, whilst it might be true NZ import more greyhounds per trainer than any other country, if you were to think of NZ of a state of Australasia, states like SA, WA and NT would rank a lot higher than NZ, and probably Tasmania as well. If imports between 'states' was stopped as you suggest, SA, WA and NT would more than struggle to maintain current racing programmes. I'm not saying NZ would but the standard would considerably drop.

Second again by GOM, to say that it's GAP dogs from Aus coming over an clogging the nz gap system is rediculous. If that was the case give me Wheelers, or Cantys or  Tulios or Thompsons numbers an id love to train their GAP dogs. These are astute business people and wouldn't be paying the thousands of dollars to send over if they didn't think they could make a profit off them.

The third by Seddon does have some truth to it. He states 'do like the Aussies and get rid of lot of sprint races...' As a basic rule, (though not every meeting), 450 dogs WILL have preference to race, however such is the shortage of these dogs, meetings contain plenty of shorts is very common. Compare Geelong tonight to Hatrick where both meetings an formed using highest grades downward. 6 shorts vs 8. I saw a 10 race card (due to lack of noms) at Cannington a couple of weeks back only had 3 520m races. The rest were 380s or 297. NZ isn't the only place where the breed is weaker...

 

Regards. James

sheepy as i agree with most of your points sa wa vic  nsw etc arent imports thats like saying the south and north island  import to each other

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24 minutes ago, Sheepy said:

Three gross an ignorant misconceptions here,

First by GOM, whilst it might be true NZ import more greyhounds per trainer than any other country, if you were to think of NZ of a state of Australasia, states like SA, WA and NT would rank a lot higher than NZ, and probably Tasmania as well. If imports between 'states' was stopped as you suggest, SA, WA and NT would more than struggle to maintain current racing programmes. I'm not saying NZ would but the standard would considerably drop.

Second again by GOM, to say that it's GAP dogs from Aus coming over an clogging the nz gap system is rediculous. If that was the case give me Wheelers, or Cantys or  Tulios or Thompsons numbers an id love to train their GAP dogs. These are astute business people and wouldn't be paying the thousands of dollars to send over if they didn't think they could make a profit off them.

The third by Seddon does have some truth to it. He states 'do like the Aussies and get rid of lot of sprint races...' As a basic rule, (though not every meeting), 450 dogs WILL have preference to race, however such is the shortage of these dogs, meetings contain plenty of shorts is very common. Compare Geelong tonight to Hatrick where both meetings an formed using highest grades downward. 6 shorts vs 8. I saw a 10 race card (due to lack of noms) at Cannington a couple of weeks back only had 3 520m races. The rest were 380s or 297. NZ isn't the only place where the breed is weaker...

 

Regards. James

secondly wheeler mostly send over his non chasers and you probably wouldnt be able to train them unless you were over in nz

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33 minutes ago, Sheepy said:

Three gross an ignorant misconceptions here,

First by GOM, whilst it might be true NZ import more greyhounds per trainer than any other country, if you were to think of NZ of a state of Australasia, states like SA, WA and NT would rank a lot higher than NZ, and probably Tasmania as well. If imports between 'states' was stopped as you suggest, SA, WA and NT would more than struggle to maintain current racing programmes. I'm not saying NZ would but the standard would considerably drop.

Second again by GOM, to say that it's GAP dogs from Aus coming over an clogging the nz gap system is rediculous. If that was the case give me Wheelers, or Cantys or  Tulios or Thompsons numbers an id love to train their GAP dogs. These are astute business people and wouldn't be paying the thousands of dollars to send over if they didn't think they could make a profit off them.

The third by Seddon does have some truth to it. He states 'do like the Aussies and get rid of lot of sprint races...' As a basic rule, (though not every meeting), 450 dogs WILL have preference to race, however such is the shortage of these dogs, meetings contain plenty of shorts is very common. Compare Geelong tonight to Hatrick where both meetings an formed using highest grades downward. 6 shorts vs 8. I saw a 10 race card (due to lack of noms) at Cannington a couple of weeks back only had 3 520m races. The rest were 380s or 297. NZ isn't the only place where the breed is weaker...

 

Regards. James

sheepy do you think wheeler etc pay for there dogs to come over to aust  upfront

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37 minutes ago, Sheepy said:

Three gross an ignorant misconceptions here,

First by GOM, whilst it might be true NZ import more greyhounds per trainer than any other country, if you were to think of NZ of a state of Australasia, states like SA, WA and NT would rank a lot higher than NZ, and probably Tasmania as well. If imports between 'states' was stopped as you suggest, SA, WA and NT would more than struggle to maintain current racing programmes. I'm not saying NZ would but the standard would considerably drop.

Second again by GOM, to say that it's GAP dogs from Aus coming over an clogging the nz gap system is rediculous. If that was the case give me Wheelers, or Cantys or  Tulios or Thompsons numbers an id love to train their GAP dogs. These are astute business people and wouldn't be paying the thousands of dollars to send over if they didn't think they could make a profit off them.

The third by Seddon does have some truth to it. He states 'do like the Aussies and get rid of lot of sprint races...' As a basic rule, (though not every meeting), 450 dogs WILL have preference to race, however such is the shortage of these dogs, meetings contain plenty of shorts is very common. Compare Geelong tonight to Hatrick where both meetings an formed using highest grades downward. 6 shorts vs 8. I saw a 10 race card (due to lack of noms) at Cannington a couple of weeks back only had 3 520m races. The rest were 380s or 297. NZ isn't the only place where the breed is weaker...

 

Regards. James

and one would let imports in as long as wheeler etc take the them back to aust as they really own  them so ship them back

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