RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
Iraklis

Oh Ho It's on!

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Just now, Flagship uberalles said:

You must be under the impression only people with the same thoughts as yourself are allowed an opinion....twat

No you can talk all the rubbish you like on here and call it an opinion. Hope you didnt lose too much on the final given you posted your tips like the rest of us.

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On 12/9/2017 at 11:28 AM, Thejanitor said:

A great night for the Kiwis...nice to see Costa Del Magnifico take out the last. Very good ex Southland horse.

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50 minutes ago, JackSprat said:

You are indeed correct Alan, my tally of Interdominion winning drives does sit at somewhat less than 10! That does not however make my summation of their drives any less valid, nor does it make them immune to criticism.

The simple fact is that any chance any of them had of winning depended on being proactive early in the race, therefore making Lazarus' task more difficult. I think we're unanimous in our view that when Lazarus got a easy path to the death, the race was as good as over.

Neither me nor anyone else is suggesting that aggressive mid race moves from any of his rivals would have produced a different result. The race was a foregone conclusion inside the first lap. I'm sure if you ran the race again next Friday night from the same barriers, there would be several drivers adopting vastly different tactics, with the benefit of hindsight.

I agree they shouldn't be immune to criticism and everyone can have an opinion but you need to be able to justify it. Of course in hindsight the race tactics would be different if the race was run next week, that goes without saying. I would agree with you fully about the driver tactics for one major exception LAZARUS. If you took him out of the race and they drove the same way I would 100% agree with you. The point is the drivers had to drive their horses soft otherwise they couldn't get over Lazarus. Hall drove his horse soft behind the leader and could still only run second.

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Just now, Alan B said:

I agree they shouldn't be immune to criticism and everyone can have an opinion but you need to be able to justify it. Of course in hindsight the race tactics would be different if the race was run next week, that goes without saying. I would agree with you fully about the driver tactics for one major exception LAZARUS. If you took him out of the race and they drove the same way I would 100% agree with you. The point is the drivers had to drive their horses soft otherwise they couldn't get over Lazarus. Hall drove his horse soft behind the leader and could still only run second.

Great post but at the end of the day the champion horse with the champion trainer/driver bolted in. what else could any rational poster say. Ifs and maybes have never won a race

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A few things to ponder when you're weighing up the merits of the "great race".

  • They ran the first 2100m at a touch better than a 2.01 MR - a very moderate time even for a midweek maiden - so the race was effectively a 2100m doddle, followed by a one lap dash. No prizes for guessing where the best spots were to be with a lap to go!
  • Except for the trot, the overall mile rate was the equal slowest of the night. I know it was 2900m, but these horses were supposed to be the best of the best,. The Bucket List went several seconds faster winning the consolation over the same distance.
  • These times underline the throttle hold that Lazarus took on the race when he got to the death. Something he managed to do at a midweek maiden speed. Such was the "stage fright" that his opponents all appeared to suffer in the first lap!

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Lots of big races are won in slow times in all sports. It's called tempo and tactics. Look at most 1500m at Olympics. Most are nowhere near the world records. Its all about out thinking and outsmarted the opposition and or getting into their head before the race. Lazarus and Purfon did all of these. Times are irrelevant in a 35000 consolation final compared with a 1.1m final. 

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42 minutes ago, Dockers said:

Lots of big races are won in slow times in all sports. It's called tempo and tactics. Look at most 1500m at Olympics. Most are nowhere near the world records. Its all about out thinking and outsmarted the opposition and or getting into their head before the race. Lazarus and Purfon did all of these. Times are irrelevant in a 35000 consolation final compared with a 1.1m final. 

Agreed times are irrelevant, it is winning that matters most, ask any trainer/driver. Times are only relevant in that your horse needs to be able to run the fast times if required.

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1 hour ago, JackSprat said:

A few things to ponder when you're weighing up the merits of the "great race".

  • They ran the first 2100m at a touch better than a 2.01 MR - a very moderate time even for a midweek maiden - so the race was effectively a 2100m doddle, followed by a one lap dash. No prizes for guessing where the best spots were to be with a lap to go!
  • Except for the trot, the overall mile rate was the equal slowest of the night. I know it was 2900m, but these horses were supposed to be the best of the best,. The Bucket List went several seconds faster winning the consolation over the same distance.
  • These times underline the throttle hold that Lazarus took on the race when he got to the death. Something he managed to do at a midweek maiden speed. Such was the "stage fright" that his opponents all appeared to suffer in the first lap!

I think we agree to disagree Jack.

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3 hours ago, Alan B said:

Times are only relevant in that your horse needs to be able to run the fast times if required.

And this is something  that Lazarus is able to do when required. Why break a world record if you can win without busting your guts. And if need be you will bust your guts AND still win. 

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12 minutes ago, harewood said:

And this is something  that Lazarus is able to do when required. Why break a world record if you can win without busting your guts. And if need be you will bust your guts AND still win. 

That way you don't flatten your horse for when it next races. There are still some big races coming up.

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9 hours ago, Flagship uberalles said:

Really...it was a good debate until you came on with your big "I'm the expert" crap

Dont read my posts then, you always reply rapidly and in a critical way. As for your expert comment, I'm not the one proffering all these so call expert opinions , its you Flag After all whose the confused and arrogant person on here who posted

Ill tell you who wins the final after draw comes out but Laz wont if such and such draw in side. so ill tip it to run 2nd followed by

" Yes fantastic win by Lazarus no excuses the rest"  and then you say its a boring contest.

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FlagU guys, please! cut out the snipes an side swipes where are yuh frickn manners! slap!

JackS weren't you also the dude who said 'It turns out it's a bit tougher when your opposition are all genuine opponents' now your sayin they were really all a pack of whimps! mate it is 8.40am mon mornin and I just checked to make sure that yep! LAZZIE STILL WON THE FRICKN INTERS FINAL! what the hell? provide all the 'interestin stats you want' blah blah blah but mate The Champ still won it! and he frickn won it with 'daylight' to the rest (to use your other quote) did it ever occur to you that the 'spectacle' was just in the race itself! it was an Inter Dominion Grand Final! and that we are just lovin the outcome, the race wasn't full of useless, hopeless, gutless, horses and drivers who all suddenly lost their marbles! they were the best there was at this time, they all worked hard (drivers and horses) and got their chance to race in the Final yeh! and oh shit the race didn't go the way you wanted, or scenario didn't pan out the way you wanted, and it 'wasn't the spectacle you wanted' frig sounds like nothin went the way you wanted.....but you know summit, WE (the fans etc) DON'T CARE! right! Lazzie an his mate Mark showed em all :D and that's now marked into history........

 

Cheers Iraklis

PS. Spyro, Sir Vancelot was anything but a cowardly lion....

 

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Careful Iraklis or you're going to do yourself an injury!

You're dead right about one thing though, I did say 'It turns out it's a bit tougher when your opposition are all genuine opponents'.

It's just a pity they weren't in the final!

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3 hours ago, Iraklis said:

FlagU guys, please! cut out the snipes an side swipes where are yuh frickn manners! slap!

JackS weren't you also the dude who said 'It turns out it's a bit tougher when your opposition are all genuine opponents' now your sayin they were really all a pack of whimps! mate it is 8.40am mon mornin and I just checked to make sure that yep! LAZZIE STILL WON THE FRICKN INTERS FINAL! what the hell? provide all the 'interestin stats you want' blah blah blah but mate The Champ still won it! and he frickn won it with 'daylight' to the rest (to use your other quote) did it ever occur to you that the 'spectacle' was just in the race itself! it was an Inter Dominion Grand Final! and that we are just lovin the outcome, the race wasn't full of useless, hopeless, gutless, horses and drivers who all suddenly lost their marbles! they were the best there was at this time, they all worked hard (drivers and horses) and got their chance to race in the Final yeh! and oh shit the race didn't go the way you wanted, or scenario didn't pan out the way you wanted, and it 'wasn't the spectacle you wanted' frig sounds like nothin went the way you wanted.....but you know summit, WE (the fans etc) DON'T CARE! right! Lazzie an his mate Mark showed em all :D and that's now marked into history........

 

Cheers Iraklis

PS. Spyro, Sir Vancelot was anything but a cowardly lion....

 

If you read again never said he was or ever think it, was referring to Ricky May's drive, the one that Brian Hancock said primarily  gifted him the race.  He remarked that he had expected some fight from the Kiwis and got none.  From memory Iraklis  straight away gave up the lead to Sir Vancelot and Ricky May said later he knew in  doing that he realised his chance of winning the race  had evaporated.

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31 minutes ago, Mr Spyro said:

If you read again never said he was or ever think it, was referring to Ricky May's drive, the one that Brian Hancock said primarily  gifted him the race.  He remarked that he had expected some fight from the Kiwis and got none.  From memory Iraklis  straight away gave up the lead to Sir Vancelot and Ricky May said later he knew in  doing that he realised his chance of winning the race  had evaporated.

Correct Mr S. We put a hell of a lot of effort into that Interdom which was ruined by Christian Cullen having to pull out. That "walk around the Park" final was a huge disappointment as a spectacle as nothing took Sir Vancelot on at any stage and it was just a sprint home.

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2 hours ago, Ohokaman said:

Correct Mr S. We put a hell of a lot of effort into that Interdom which was ruined by Christian Cullen having to pull out. That "walk around the Park" final was a huge disappointment as a spectacle as nothing took Sir Vancelot on at any stage and it was just a sprint home.

Sir Vancelot hadn't gone  that good for him in the heats, in fact I think he needed to run 4th  in last heat just  to make the final.  Some Australians I met up with had come over to support him and were furious when Hancock got him stuck on rails and got called in 5th .  Called him for everything and then call got changed to 4th  and  he squeaked into the final ,  so you could say but for  a matter of a half a head, Iriklis would in all probability have won the Interdom.   After that race I've never seen so many disgusted people leaving the course  early and they were holding  nothing back - basically that if we gave up our big races like that  without  even an effort, they wouldn't be bothered returning.

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Just now, Mr Spyro said:

Sir Vancelot hadn't gone  that good for him in the heats, in fact I think he needed to run 4th  in last heat just  to make the final.  Some Australians I met up with had come over to support him and were furious when Hancock got him stuck on rails and got called in 5th .  Called him for everything and then call got changed to 4th  and  he squeaked into the final ,  so you could say but for  a matter of a half a head, Iriklis would in all probability have won the Interdom.    Such is fate.....after that race I've never seen so many disgusted people leaving the course  early and they were holding  nothing back - basically that if we gave up our big races like that  without  even an effort, they wouldn't be bothered returning.

 

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