RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
Iraklis

Oh Ho It's on!

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2 hours ago, Dockers said:

Brodie. Backed Lazarus. Still don't get how you think it was a boring race. But in your mind and happy place you are always right. If you can't get excited about NZ best taken on best in oz I really don' know what floats your boat. 

Just ignore him and his one mate Flagship. They truly are birds of a feather who might as well room together.:lol:

 

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15 minutes ago, Fartoomuch said:

Just ignore him and his one mate Flagship. They truly are birds of a feather who might as well room together.:lol:

 

Brilliant, sorry FarT Too Much but unlike yourself I can afford a bit more than a room to share!

Think you will find that most true Punters would have actually found the race to be boring as a spectacle.

Of course it is good to have NZ horse win but as a good track for an Interdominion, it is NIL!

To be fair though, I wouldn’t expect to have your support as your name suggest you are full of it!

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1 hour ago, Flagship uberalles said:

I have to agree the Aussie drivers didn't serve it up,  also when have faith in me made a move from the rear he got to where Lazarus was and seemed to expect him to come out in front, when lazarus didn't he just drifted back to last and had to do it again a lap later....consolation was a much better spectacle.

Could it be that Purdon out smarted Chris Lewis by staying in? By the way Its easy to criticise  drivers  after they get a bad barrier draw. It would have been a completely different race if Lenny had have drawn one or two. I thought the driver of the leading horse Tiger Tara didn't serve it up, set a slow pace and still couldn't run second.

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More likely Lewis got told to get out of the way! Lazarus needed to get around to the death, and the last thing he needed was a lumbering Have Faith In Me planted 3 deep for the trip and blocking his progress.

15 hours later and I still can't believe how meekly the aussie drivers folded. Apart from Gary Hall Jnr, who really had no choice, the rest should be shamed to bank their drivers fee!

If anyone had suggested pre-race that all the aussie contenders were going to concede the race en masse half a lap in, I'd have called them insane, but we all saw it with our own eyes!

The All Stars "aura of invincibility" that has their NZ rivals mentally beaten at acceptance time, has clearly spread to WA!

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2 hours ago, Dockers said:

I agree somewhat Jack . Racing for 2nd I suppose in a million dollar race is maybe what they wanted to do.  Bottom line is Lazarus is nigh on unbeatable over a staying distance. I think only thing that could of stopped him winning was the wheels falling off the cart. 

Or Flagship and Brodie labeling it. Fortunately neither happened and the Champion won at 2.31 much to their chagrin. Top marks for all Iraklis 's post on the final winner- brilliant

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6 hours ago, JackSprat said:

No doubt the best horse won, and ably assisted by the only driver that turned up!

With the best of the best racing it had the potential to be a great contest, but as a spectacle, the consolation was head and shoulders above the final. Not only did they run several seconds faster, but everyone was driving to win .... not for second!

The expected contest never eventuated with the Aussie drivers all going to water on the night. Obviously Mark Purdon won the pre-race mental contest, as every other driver was positioning themselves for second money from the word go.

With the first 2100m run in a 2.01MR, the one lap dash was only ever going to be won by Lazarus.

He may well have won the race no matter how it was run, but watching the race unfold, I couldn't help but wonder if all the aussie drivers had been castrated prior to the race!

Well, that's what happens when one horse is in a different league to the others.  As I said back in the winter, the current crop of Aussie horses isn't as strong as they like to make out, and their drivers knew it.  Once Lazarus got to the death (with little effort), it would have been suicide for any of the others to have tried to wrest that off him.  Why kill a horse just to run last?  

It's easy to criticise drivers for being cautious, but in this case it was perfectly rational.

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7 hours ago, Brodie said:

Dockster, nothing about being miserable at all!

The race was very boring as everything apart from Lazarus just sat and weren’t given any chance of winning.

First 3 to the bend were first 3 home.

 

Well, yes --- apart from the fact that Lazarus was 4th at the first bend...

One can always rely on Brodie to pour a bucket of warm sick on anything positive!

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2 hours ago, Basil said:

Well, that's what happens when one horse is in a different league to the others.  As I said back in the winter, the current crop of Aussie horses isn't as strong as they like to make out, and their drivers knew it.  Once Lazarus got to the death (with little effort), it would have been suicide for any of the others to have tried to wrest that off him.  Why kill a horse just to run last?  

It's easy to criticise drivers for being cautious, but in this case it was perfectly rational.

A very good summary Basil of how the race eventuated. Why burn your horse early and then have nothing left at the end. Those horses didn't have the tank to do it hard and then outstay Lazarus. Lenny faced the breeze early then couldn't go on with it is a case in point. To be critical of the drivers who are their to give their horse the best opportunity indicates not knowing what a horse is capable of. I am sure the drivers know the capabilities and limitations of the horse they are driving better than the onlookers from the other side of the fence!

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3 hours ago, Basil said:

Well, that's what happens when one horse is in a different league to the others.  As I said back in the winter, the current crop of Aussie horses isn't as strong as they like to make out, and their drivers knew it.  Once Lazarus got to the death (with little effort), it would have been suicide for any of the others to have tried to wrest that off him.  Why kill a horse just to run last?  

It's easy to criticise drivers for being cautious, but in this case it was perfectly rational.

The pertinent part of your comment is "Once Lazarus got to the death (with little effort), it would have been suicide for any of the others to have tried to wrest that off him."

The opposition drivers had made all their poor decisions prior to that point, and from then on any moves would have been suicidal.

The thing is, it was a million dollar race, and for most of them, the only time they will ever race for such money. Quite frankly, I think most of the opposition drivers were guilty of falling asleep at the wheel.

Round 3 of the heats may have been time for caution, but you'd think a million dollar final was the time to have a crack!

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14 hours ago, Alan B said:

Could it be that Purdon out smarted Chris Lewis by staying in? By the way Its easy to criticise  drivers  after they get a bad barrier draw. It would have been a completely different race if Lenny had have drawn one or two. I thought the driver of the leading horse Tiger Tara didn't serve it up, set a slow pace and still couldn't run second.

Have Faith In Me went rough and almost broke and veered wide on the track for a few strides when Lewis made his run. After that the horse lost momentum and the driver had little choice but to pull him back to rear. That's the way I saw it anyway.

I don't know anything about Gloucester Park but it looked difficult for horses parked three wide, Lenny was trapped out there at the start of the race and the driver seemed unsure what to do pull back or go for it, then he rushed around but the horse wasn't happy, pacing roughly, throwing head around. After that he had a good run so the horse had his chance but not good enough?

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Guys oh come on! you cant blame any one of the rival drivers 'for conceding en masse etc etc', they all know The Champ is the real deal and then some :) they wouldn't be in the sport if they didn't, all that other talk was just that yap! but it also showed that 'competition' in aus; Mark has their measure as well......as for The Faith he was traveling, but what was Lewis guna do, really? I just felt sorry for The Faith in that he could've finished closer driven differently, he only faded just after turnin in so it is what it is.....

Lazzie was, is and has always carried too many big guns :) look at his record it speaks for itself, aussies know this but they gotta say summit don't they, I mean, I mean, their 'house' an the mighty Lazzie just trashed it! :D every now and again they come here an trash ours, just how lucky for em to have Lazzie and others over there for now who are probably guna be repeatin the dose in the months to come, gawd I wish he was comin back to Aucks over Xmas would love to see him racin in the flesh again....

 

Cheers Iraklis

PS. JackS you may be right re fallin asleep at the wheel, didn't the guy on Chicago Bull say he was guna have a sleep LOL

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12 hours ago, Basil said:

Well, yes --- apart from the fact that Lazarus was 4th at the first bend...

One can always rely on Brodie to pour a bucket of warm sick on anything positive!

Basil, where did I say first bend??????

There is such a thing as HOMEBEND!!

Doesnt alter the fact that the race was boring!

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14 hours ago, JackSprat said:

The pertinent part of your comment is "Once Lazarus got to the death (with little effort), it would have been suicide for any of the others to have tried to wrest that off him."

The opposition drivers had made all their poor decisions prior to that point, and from then on any moves would have been suicidal.

Which ones had made poor decisions?  Tiger Tara was in the lead.  Lenny was parked.  Soho Tribeca was in the 1-1.  And Chicago Bull was in the trail (which was the only possible position he was able to get to).  So all the main contenders (other than Lazarus) were either in the lead, close to the lead, or where their draw dictated they had to be. 

If only the drivers of all the horses I back always made such poor decisions.:D

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41 minutes ago, Basil said:

Which ones had made poor decisions?  Tiger Tara was in the lead.  Lenny was parked.  Soho Tribeca was in the 1-1.  And Chicago Bull was in the trail (which was the only possible position he was able to get to).  So all the main contenders (other than Lazarus) were either in the lead, close to the lead, or where their draw dictated they had to be. 

If only the drivers of all the horses I back always made such poor decisions.:D

Positions are irrelevant. Where you are in relation to your main dangers is what matters.

Tiger Tara - went too slow. Invited Lazarus around to the death, and then made life easy for him.

Lennytheshark -  handed up the death as if he was a sit sprint wimp. His only hope of winning was to stay in front of Lazarus and/or make him do extra work.

Soho Tribeca - same as Lenny, plus he had first dibs on whipping around to the death.

Chicago Bull - was at the mercy of the others, but couldn't win in such a slowly run sprint home.

Tiger Tara, Lennytheshark, and Soho Tribeca were all "driven pretty", which in this case was very different to "driven well".

Lazarus was "driven ugly" which was the perfect driven in the circumstances.

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24 minutes ago, JackSprat said:

Tiger Tara, Lennytheshark, and Soho Tribeca were all "driven pretty",

So they should all be contesting the lead. Three wide up front for 3 laps of GP???

Im glad your not a harness driver Jack, you wouldnt have your licence for very long. Lazarus was "driven ugly" 

Lazarus was "driven ugly" 

No he was driven well, Lazarus has never been a sit and sprint horse. He has never been beaten when he has been in front at the turn either leading or parked. That is the was to drive him, use his superior staying ability. He has been beaten when he has trailed or tried to sprint  from the 1/1 He was Well driven. 

 

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JS, you a bloody funny guy :rolleyes: guys did I not say (in jest mind at that time) that the comments post Inters if The Mighty Laz wins would include this rubbish talk, suddenly now all the drivers were asleep at the wheel, and Laz was invited to take the death, all aussie drivers who were so competitive through heats have suddenly conceded, give me a fricken break.....LAZZIE WON THE FRICKN FINAL! AND DID IT THE HARD WAY! GET OVER IT, MOVE ON! geezuz........

 

Cheers Iraklis

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, harewood said:

So they should all be contesting the lead. Three wide up front for 3 laps of GP???

Im glad your not a harness driver Jack, you wouldnt have your licence for very long. Lazarus was "driven ugly" 

Lazarus was "driven ugly" 

No he was driven well, Lazarus has never been a sit and sprint horse. He has never been beaten when he has been in front at the turn either leading or parked. That is the was to drive him, use his superior staying ability. He has been beaten when he has trailed or tried to sprint  from the 1/1 He was Well driven. 

 

Yes he was well driven. The situation called for an "ugly drive" and M Purdon executed to perfection.

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53 minutes ago, Iraklis said:

JS, you a bloody funny guy :rolleyes: guys did I not say (in jest mind at that time) that the comments post Inters if The Mighty Laz wins would include this rubbish talk, suddenly now all the drivers were asleep at the wheel, and Laz was invited to take the death, all aussie drivers who were so competitive through heats have suddenly conceded, give me a fricken break.....LAZZIE WON THE FRICKN FINAL! AND DID IT THE HARD WAY! GET OVER IT, MOVE ON! geezuz........

Cheers Iraklis

Lazarus probably wins no matter how the final was run. The point I'm making, which you either don't get or are choosing to ignore, is that any winning chances the opposing drivers had went out the window with their timid tactics in the first lap.

Far from having to "do it the hard way", I'd say the lack of any early aggression from rival drivers saw the race unfold far easier for Lazarus that even Mark Purdon could have imagined.

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2 hours ago, JackSprat said:

Positions are irrelevant. Where you are in relation to your main dangers is what matters.

Tiger Tara - went too slow. Invited Lazarus around to the death, and then made life easy for him.

Lennytheshark -  handed up the death as if he was a sit sprint wimp. His only hope of winning was to stay in front of Lazarus and/or make him do extra work.

Soho Tribeca - same as Lenny, plus he had first dibs on whipping around to the death.

Chicago Bull - was at the mercy of the others, but couldn't win in such a slowly run sprint home.

Tiger Tara, Lennytheshark, and Soho Tribeca were all "driven pretty", which in this case was very different to "driven well".

Lazarus was "driven ugly" which was the perfect driven in the circumstances.

The race was run slow because the Tiger Tara's driver and Purdon elected not to go fast.The swoopers from behind then didn't have a chance. The other drivers knew they couldn't over work their horses and then run over the top of Lazarus. As for drivers you are criticising Lewis, Alford, Prentice and Hall, between them they have won about 10 Inters Finals between them. I'd suggest that's 10 finals more than you have won as a driver Jack.

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JackS mate, I'm choosing to ignore nothing you on the other hand are!!!! Im sure those drivers you are referring to in such manner 'timid' and 'should be ashamed to bank their cheques' etc etc would love to take it up with you, opinions are just opinions! however those of us who enjoyed the race and see it as a bloody great one (I've watched it over 6 times) will never come round to your way of thinkin mate no matter what you say......you snipe away all you want, but there's really no need for it! you aint gunna change the result no matter how much bitchin you do! so I SAY AGAIN LAZZIE DID IT THE HARD WAY, FACIN THE BREEZE ONE OUT, AND FINISHED THE JOB OFF WITH APLOMB! your gripin cant take that away ever!!!!.....

 

Cheers Iraklis

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15 minutes ago, Iraklis said:

JackS mate, I'm choosing to ignore nothing you on the other hand are!!!! Im sure those drivers you are referring to in such manner 'timid' and 'should be ashamed to bank their cheques' etc etc would love to take it up with you, opinions are just opinions! however those of us who enjoyed the race and see it as a bloody great one (I've watched it over 6 times) will never come round to your way of thinkin mate no matter what you say......you snipe away all you want, but there's really no need for it! you aint gunna change the result no matter how much bitchin you do! so I SAY AGAIN LAZZIE DID IT THE HARD WAY, FACIN THE BREEZE ONE OUT, AND FINISHED THE JOB OFF WITH APLOMB! your gripin cant take that away ever!!!!.....

 

Cheers Iraklis

Maybe all the Australians were taking lessons from Ricky May when he drove your namesake in Auck Interdom  won by Sir Vancelot, that was the tamest drive of all time, made the Cowardly Lion look like   Johnny Rambo.

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49 minutes ago, Alan B said:

The race was run slow because the Tiger Tara's driver and Purdon elected not to go fast.The swoopers from behind then didn't have a chance. The other drivers knew they couldn't over work their horses and then run over the top of Lazarus. As for drivers you are criticising Lewis, Alford, Prentice and Hall, between them they have won about 10 Inters Finals between them. I'd suggest that's 10 finals more than you have won as a driver Jack.

You are indeed correct Alan, my tally of Interdominion winning drives does sit at somewhat less than 10! That does not however make my summation of their drives any less valid, nor does it make them immune to criticism.

The simple fact is that any chance any of them had of winning depended on being proactive early in the race, therefore making Lazarus' task more difficult. I think we're unanimous in our view that when Lazarus got a easy path to the death, the race was as good as over.

Neither me nor anyone else is suggesting that aggressive mid race moves from any of his rivals would have produced a different result. The race was a foregone conclusion inside the first lap. I'm sure if you ran the race again next Friday night from the same barriers, there would be several drivers adopting vastly different tactics, with the benefit of hindsight.

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33 minutes ago, Iraklis said:

JackS mate, I'm choosing to ignore nothing you on the other hand are!!!! Im sure those drivers you are referring to in such manner 'timid' and 'should be ashamed to bank their cheques' etc etc would love to take it up with you, opinions are just opinions! however those of us who enjoyed the race and see it as a bloody great one (I've watched it over 6 times) will never come round to your way of thinkin mate no matter what you say......you snipe away all you want, but there's really no need for it! you aint gunna change the result no matter how much bitchin you do! so I SAY AGAIN LAZZIE DID IT THE HARD WAY, FACIN THE BREEZE ONE OUT, AND FINISHED THE JOB OFF WITH APLOMB! your gripin cant take that away ever!!!!.....

Cheers Iraklis

I appreciate that your exuberance for all thing New Zealand, and especially all things Lazarus, leaves little room for alternate views - even when they largely come to the same conclusion that you do!

I'm not seeking to change your opinion, or anyone elses for that matter. What you saw as a great race, I saw as a great performance, but as far as a great spectacle goes, it was as dull as dishwater.

One horse was driven to win, and he won. Another was driven to win with luck, and he finished second. Another was driven to run second, and he finished third. The rest were driven with a complete lack of nous, and finished where they deserved.

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19 hours ago, JackSprat said:

The pertinent part of your comment is "Once Lazarus got to the death (with little effort), it would have been suicide for any of the others to have tried to wrest that off him."

The opposition drivers had made all their poor decisions prior to that point, and from then on any moves would have been suicidal.

The thing is, it was a million dollar race, and for most of them, the only time they will ever race for such money. Quite frankly, I think most of the opposition drivers were guilty of falling asleep at the wheel.

Round 3 of the heats may have been time for caution, but you'd think a million dollar final was the time to have a crack!

Absolute garbage post but thanks for letting us know you are in the boring contest camp with the big swinging dick punters on here who didnt fancy him nor back him.Cheers

 

 

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