RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
Iraklis

Bugga!

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I don't know if the barrier draws are done by computer or not, but if they are then the computer can be set to give them the result they want. eg a horse beginning with an L to draw between 7 & 9. I have been told this can be done.

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Geez, you'd better brace yourself Iraklis, Purdon is starting to roll out the excuses .... and we're only half way through the Interdoms!

https://www.hrnz.co.nz/news-and-events/latest-news/6157-interdoms-tougher-than-he-imagined

It turns out it's a bit tougher when your opposition are all genuine opponents instead if half them being teammates! 

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3 hours ago, JackSprat said:

Geez, you'd better brace yourself Iraklis, Purdon is starting to roll out the excuses .... and we're only half way through the Interdoms!

https://www.hrnz.co.nz/news-and-events/latest-news/6157-interdoms-tougher-than-he-imagined

It turns out it's a bit tougher when your opposition are all genuine opponents instead if half them being teammates! 

Dont let the truth get in the way of YOUR version Jack will you. 

Purdon stated that it is very hard getting around the tight turns and sitting parked  against very very opposition. we all knew that especially those who have been to GP. No great revelation in that. He said he is very happy with Laz and the longer trips will now suit him better. We all knew that as well Jack. 

So your version of the interview is that Purdon is rolling out the excuses, sorry but I lost count of the number he gave. And just for good measure to complete your story you throw in the absurd comment about teammates

If I didnt know better Jack I would think that you dont like Purdon and Lazarus and hope that his mission to win the ID final fails. 

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3 hours ago, Overcheck said:

I don't know if the barrier draws are done by computer or not, but if they are then the computer can be set to give them the result they want. eg a horse beginning with an L to draw between 7 & 9. I have been told this can be done.

The draws are done by one person pulling out a horse number and then another by pulling out a barrier number. All under the eyes of the CEO of Perth IDs with trainers present if desired. Sorry to disappoint you but no conspiracy here.

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3 hours ago, JackSprat said:

Geez, you'd better brace yourself Iraklis, Purdon is starting to roll out the excuses .... and we're only half way through the Interdoms!

https://www.hrnz.co.nz/news-and-events/latest-news/6157-interdoms-tougher-than-he-imagined

It turns out it's a bit tougher when your opposition are all genuine opponents instead if half them being teammates! 

I would have thought he was just stating the factual obvious JS, whats your agenda

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3 hours ago, harewood said:

Dont let the truth get in the way of YOUR version Jack will you. 

Purdon stated that it is very hard getting around the tight turns and sitting parked  against very very opposition. we all knew that especially those who have been to GP. No great revelation in that. He said he is very happy with Laz and the longer trips will now suit him better. We all knew that as well Jack. 

So your version of the interview is that Purdon is rolling out the excuses, sorry but I lost count of the number he gave. And just for good measure to complete your story you throw in the absurd comment about teammates

If I didnt know better Jack I would think that you dont like Purdon and Lazarus and hope that his mission to win the ID final fails. 

Wow, that escalated quickly!

You've turned what started out as a bit of good natured ribbing for the ultra-enthusiastic Iraklis,  into a personal attack on me for no obvious reason.

But we wouldn't want your mis-reading of the original article to get in the way of what Mark Purdon actually said now would we?

Here are a few direct quotes from the article ...

  • "Purdon has admitted this year’s Inter Dominion is proving tougher for Lazarus than he ever imagined"
  • "dented his confidence the stable can defend the title Smolda won last season"
  • "it is very, very hard sitting parked on these tight tracks"
  • "Purdon admits he is less confident of winning the series than he was a week ago"
  • "that doesn’t help and either does the fact the series was a week closer to New Zealand Cup week than it was last year"
  • "hopefully he doesn’t have a hard run because he has had two back to back, whereas horses like Soho Tribeca and Chicago Bull have both had an easy series so far."

Sorry to disappoint you and Farrtoomuch with your "agenda" theory, but my family and I are actually quite good friends with Mark and the wider Purdon clan, and have had shares in a number of horses with both Mark and Barry over a period of at least 25 years.

I did state prior to the Interdoms that Lazarus was in for an almighty fight in Perth, and taking Have Faith In Me was a total waste of money.

As for the mentions of team mates or the lack thereof, I would have thought that was pretty self explanatory.

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Jack mate, yeh I got that, and I saw the same interview there were no excuses he stated facts yes, but where you get this crap about needing so called 'friends' or 'genuine opponents' in any race Lazzie wins or races in etc? what are you really sayin that our drivers here are that gutless/hopeless they don't want to win? and or take on any AllStar horses? and our horses etc are not genuine in someway? or are you just on about Lazzie? what is it?.....because I would love to hear from any of the rival drivers here in NZ, and what reaction you'd get if any of you ever said this to any of them, I know what alot of em would say and it'd be less than complimentary! and what about the owners of those horses considered by you (you aint the only one mind) to be not 'genuine opponents' or a 'waste of money'........

Now in general: We are a thoroughly competitive lot here in NZ, and our drivers are no exception, so to allude to them 'givin up' to Mark and Lazzie or whomever for the sake of 'not wanting to take him/them on' whatever, is to seriously question our drivers here, their integrity and ethics how bloody rude.......but most of all to allude to Lazzie in that vein smacks of out & out jealousy, Lazzie has deservedly won his way through the grades and has won himself 2 NZ Cups! any number of horses coulda, woulda, shoulda, had a go! it aint Marks fault, or for that matter Lazzies fault THAT NOT ONE OF THEM DID! WHAT AN AWESOME HORSE AND GOOD ON THEM! TEAM, OWNERS, THE LOT!

CAN'T YOU LOT JUST BE PROUD THEY ARE BOTH KIWIS FLYING THE FLAG FOR US, AND OUR INDUSTRY?.........yeh!!!! GOOOOOOO!!!! THE CHAMP! AND GOOOOOO!!! THE FAITH!!!!! (gawd I hope that Chris Lewis is on form tonight cos from what I hear he's pretty good :D not bad for an aussie)

 

Cheers Iraklis

PS. I for one wish for all get out that The Dream had not been taken out at the start of the Cup, cos I reckon she would have pushed em all.....hey Jack I like ultra-enthusiastic alot  :D

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4 hours ago, harewood said:

The draws are done by one person pulling out a horse number and then another by pulling out a barrier number. All under the eyes of the CEO of Perth IDs with trainers present if desired. Sorry to disappoint you but no conspiracy here.

Thanks for that harewood. I am not disappointed at all, in fact glad that is the system used as it is fair to all.

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24 minutes ago, Flagship uberalles said:

I think iraklis the point being, apart from Lazarus's stablemates the comp for the open class in nz is very weak, it is a good test for Lazarus as I think the w.a horses are pretty strong.

If WA pacers are so strong why were they and others Ozzies not running in this years NZ Cup apart from TT. I doubt any of them could have possibly done as good as Lazarus this season. My thoughts and i suspect its those of others is that Laz is a monty horse flying the flag for NZ racing in a foreign domain against others who have a climatic advantage and who have not had to travel. What will you and others say if he wins the final??

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16 minutes ago, Flagship uberalles said:

I think iraklis the point being, apart from Lazarus's stablemates the comp for the open class in nz is very weak, it is a good test for Lazarus as I think the w.a horses are pretty strong.

That's a bit like saying that apart from the tall people, everyone's quite short.:P  His stablemates are a pretty strong bunch, after all!  And, one would have to say, quite a bit deeper than the Oz open class.  Chicago Bull and Soho Tribeca race only against each other; Lenny used to race only against his stablemate (but now not even that) plus a couple of transplanted kiwis who, let's face it, are 5-10 lengths inferior to Lazarus.  And that's basically it. Heaven Rocks, Dream About Me, a fit-and-firing Have Faith In Me, and Titan Banner (ok, this is stretching the definition of stablemate...) look pretty tough competition by comparison.

Lazarus's main competition in Oz is the size of the track.  I remember Peter Wolfenden long ago remarking that Cardigan Bay could give a horse like Fosmar (optional spelling!) 70 yards and a beating at Addington, but that it was simply impossible around an Australian saucer (may have been Adelaide).   Pretty much the same is true here, at least over the sprint distances.  Put the same group of horses at Addington and they wouldn't see Lazarus's dust.  

 

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34 minutes ago, Basil said:

That's a bit like saying that apart from the tall people, everyone's quite short.:P  His stablemates are a pretty strong bunch, after all!  And, one would have to say, quite a bit deeper than the Oz open class.  Chicago Bull and Soho Tribeca race only against each other; Lenny used to race only against his stablemate (but now not even that) plus a couple of transplanted kiwis who, let's face it, are 5-10 lengths inferior to Lazarus.  And that's basically it. Heaven Rocks, Dream About Me, a fit-and-firing Have Faith In Me, and Titan Banner (ok, this is stretching the definition of stablemate...) look pretty tough competition by comparison.

Lazarus's main competition in Oz is the size of the track.  I remember Peter Wolfenden long ago remarking that Cardigan Bay could give a horse like Fosmar (optional spelling!) 70 yards and a beating at Addington, but that it was simply impossible around an Australian saucer (may have been Adelaide).   Pretty much the same is true here, at least over the sprint distances.  Put the same group of horses at Addington and they wouldn't see Lazarus's dust.  

 

lol

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FlagU, still talkin shite I see! the point being the competiton here aint weak! you happen to think it is; however, I believe you'll find alot of our trainers, drivers, breeders and owners would beg to differ and wouldn't thankyou one bit for those thoughts, nope not at all.......dude if that were the case, why would NZ be such a happy hunting ground for the aussies on such a regular basis, for uncompetitive weak horses? I doubt it! they come buy 2nd/3rd tier horses (who are struggling here) who then go over there and regularly come up trumps for them thrashing their own, ask yourself why my friend? come on now......really, if all you were sayin is 'it'll be a good test for The Champ' why cant you just say that? and leave it at that instead of all this other rubbish ie. 'weak competition here', and 'he wont get an easy time like he does here' etc etc etc geezuz  :rolleyes:

 

Cheers Iraklis

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Fartoomuch, they'll all be sayin Lazzie had it too easy, weak competition over there LMAO.....mate its takin an age to get to Lazzies and The Faiths race I'll never make it at this rate, had to have a couple of drinks (purely medicinal) just to settle nerves you know :D

 

Cheers Iraklis

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13 minutes ago, Iraklis said:

FlagU, still talkin shite I see! the point being the competiton here aint weak! you happen to think it is; however, I believe you'll find alot of our trainers, drivers, breeders and owners would beg to differ and wouldn't thankyou one bit for those thoughts, nope not at all.......dude if that were the case, why would NZ be such a happy hunting ground for the aussies on such a regular basis, for uncompetitive weak horses? I doubt it! they come buy 2nd/3rd tier horses (who are struggling here) who then go over there and regularly come up trumps for them thrashing their own, ask yourself why my friend? come on now......really, if all you were sayin is 'it'll be a good test for The Champ' why cant you just say that? and leave it at that instead of all this other rubbish ie. 'weak competition here', and 'he wont get an easy time like he does here' etc etc etc geezuz  :rolleyes:

 

Cheers Iraklis

another funny post

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22 minutes ago, Iraklis said:

FlagU, still talkin shite I see! the point being the competiton here aint weak! you happen to think it is; however, I believe you'll find alot of our trainers, drivers, breeders and owners would beg to differ and wouldn't thankyou one bit for those thoughts, nope not at all.......dude if that were the case, why would NZ be such a happy hunting ground for the aussies on such a regular basis, for uncompetitive weak horses? I doubt it! they come buy 2nd/3rd tier horses (who are struggling here) who then go over there and regularly come up trumps for them thrashing their own, ask yourself why my friend? come on now......really, if all you were sayin is 'it'll be a good test for The Champ' why cant you just say that? and leave it at that instead of all this other rubbish ie. 'weak competition here', and 'he wont get an easy time like he does here' etc etc etc geezuz  :rolleyes:

 

Cheers Iraklis

a matter of interest iraklis how many christchurch cup winners in the last 10 years have won the inter

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5 hours ago, Overcheck said:

Thanks for that harewood. I am not disappointed at all, in fact glad that is the system used as it is fair to all.

Of course there is more scrutiny over barrier draws and most things to do with administration in the industry. It is fair to all, any audit of the processes would show up things to the contrary. 

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2 hours ago, Flagship uberalles said:

Its weak here iraklis because most of the good ones get sold to Australia or the u.s. 

In your opinion iraklis apart from the three top purdon horses what in the open ranks are the next best four horses? On Aussie turf against the best Aussie has on a half mile track it is Lazarus's acid test......believe me I hope he wins, but from a betting point of view I wouldn't bet on him in the final unless he drew 1-5 other wise they will work him over.

Sorry Flag but I disagree on them working Lazarus over. Sure he isn't the fastest out of the gates but I would back him to outstay anything Aussie has to offer over the longer distance at Glouchester.  He is the best I have seen in a long long time. His run the other night doing it tough ,wide on a 1.52 and change .mile rate was outstanding, and beyond most horses. 

As Basil has alluded to, only the saucer track stands between him and greatness. 

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10 hours ago, JackSprat said:

You've turned what started out as a bit of good natured ribbing for the ultra-enthusiastic Iraklis,  into a personal attack on me for no obvious reason.

Sorry i havnt replied to you. Have just got back from GP after watching Lazarus bolt in in his heat 2 and 3 seconds faster than the other heats and under a hold. 

How you deem it a personal attack on you I dont  understand and if you perceived it that way it wasnt intended. I commented how I saw his comments and you saw them differently. 

Tonight there is no doubt it was another outstanding performance considering the time and ease of the win. He got no favors from his stablemate HFIM who was the only one challenging hard from the 600 when he could have sat parked without the pressure and still got second. It was a top run by HFIM and shows he would have been a force in the final as well. Lazarus was never going to be dominant over the shorter trips and on a 800 meter track with the wide  draws thrown in for good measure. He is there for the final and Mark has planned it that way. Dont forget that he won with Smolda last year so knew the problems Laz was about to face. What  he may have  underestimated is the strength of the local horses this year especially when running on pace. 

The 2900 final with suit Laz right down to the ground. And thats what its all about. 

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8 hours ago, Flagship uberalles said:

I will be happy if he wins, he just won't get the easy time he does in nz.....take your blinkers off.....why would those w.a  trainers put their horses through the stress of coming to nz for a draining race when the have the interdoms in their backyard 2weeks later on? 

No blinkers on here sunshine and just to remind you what times has he run in last 2 NZ Cups.

As even you rightly suggest the WA connections are basically not good enough or brave enough to try and do what Laz and his connections are trying to accomplish. On an unsuitable track with shite draws i think he done an amazing job thus far. I'm hoping it continues but its nice to know that you be happy if he wins. Phew

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Flag U, WELL HE DID BOLT IN! SO YOU PICKED THAT! AND THE FAITH BACKED IT UP FOR GOOD MEASURE! Mark P aint that dumb mate, seriously he aint! and if your thoughts are to stack up then how the hell did The Faith (a waste of money, and gone etc) get past so many of the opposition, I mean he was all but written off by many.......

Gary1, if an ol fulla like Smolda can do the job over there (and I bet alot of statisticians never gave him a show either) can't see why The Champ can't do it, even with all hes had thrown at him, and mate whether he's a Cup winner or not ahh, he's a horse and he just knows how to run yeh, no one told him 'nah yuh can't win it Laz cos your a Cup winner' stats are just stats mate! hell how many thought The Faith would do what he did last night? stats were against him too!!!!

 

Cheers Iraklis

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I personally don’t think the draw will matter for Lazarus. What he is is just one super stayer, and can maintain his speed for a long while,and when the money has been up, MP has always driven him that way, where his opposition need runs to suit. The longer and faster he goes, the better he is than anyone else IMHO.

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Cosmic Blackie, I like your style my friend :D      Dockers, got the following from Harnesslink site:

The Finalists that will be squaring off in the $1.1m TABtouch Inter Dominion Grand Final on December 8. (Draw is on Sunday)

Soho Tribeca by American Ideal

Chicago Bull by Bettor's Delight

Lazarus by Bettor's Delight

Tiger Tara by Bettor's Delight

Lennytheshark by Four Starzzz Shark

San Carlo by Mach Three

Galactic Star by Bettor's Delight

Shandale by Art Major

Vultan Tin by Dawn Ofa New Day

Have Faith In Me by Bettor's Delight

1st Emergency - Ohoka Punter by Bettor's Delight

2nd Emergency - Devendra by Bettor's Delight

3rd Emergency - Major Croker by Art Major

4th Emergency - The Bucket List by Christian Cullen

 

Cheers Iraklis

PS. Also said on same site the Have Faith In Me has been sold to American interests....bugga it just when hes showin summit like his ol self

 

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1 hour ago, CosmicBlackie said:

I personally don’t think the draw will matter for Lazarus. What he is is just one super stayer, and can maintain his speed for a long while,and when the money has been up, MP has always driven him that way, where his opposition need runs to suit. The longer and faster he goes, the better he is than anyone else IMHO.

Cosmic I believe the draw is important but more so is luck in running. I think with even average luck in running Lazarus should win. Depends if  a Chicago Bull or Soho Tribeca gets an easy run they could run over the top late, only if Lazarus has done too much work in running.

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