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Mekong Princess protest contested???

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Last race at Kaikoura on Sunday there was an protest lodged by the Stipes for the reason of Mekong Princess the winner galloping over the line and being lapped on by 3 other runners!

The enquirey took at least 30minutes to resolve after the race had finished!

The protest was contested by the driver Michael House which obviously he would be allowed to do!

However, Surely it should not have taken this long as I was under the view that if a horse gallops over the line and is lapped on then he gets relegated irrespective of anything else!

How would Mr House be able to challenge this, and how on earth would it take so long to resolve?

The horse clearly galloped over the line without any interference from another horse and therefore it was a pretty open and shut case and should have been resolved immediately shouldn’t it?

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Just watched replay - I think probably he was only querying whether he was lapped on by the 3rd horse (Sugar Cane) and would have been difficult for Michael to have seen exactly where this horse was.      All I can think of is that the time factor was caused by getting  all relevant personel to the hearing but I agree should have been resolved quicker.

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1 hour ago, eljay said:

Just watched replay - I think probably he was only querying whether he was lapped on by the 3rd horse (Sugar Cane) and would have been difficult for Michael to have seen exactly where this horse was.      All I can think of is that the time factor was caused by getting  all relevant personel to the hearing but I agree should have been resolved quicker.

Eljay, Surely that is up to the JCA to decide rather that contesting the obvious?

No need to get anyone apart from the JCA?

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If Michael contested the action - which you originally said happened and which is confirmed by the Stipes Raceday report, then it's obvious he would have had to "front up".     And a or two stipes to put their case so yes, there was every need to have others there in addition to the JCA.    

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4 hours ago, Fartoomuch said:

You clearly struggle with the  rules and procedures of Harness Racing in NZ. As such your post wont surprise anyone :rolleyes::rolleyes:

So what was the reason Mr House contested the protest then Fartoomuch?????

Because you are an expert on rules and procedures you will be able to answer this song you????

What possible case could Mr House possibly put forward that required 30 minutes or so to decide, seriously!!!

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4 hours ago, eljay said:

If Michael contested the action - which you originally said happened and which is confirmed by the Stipes Raceday report, then it's obvious he would have had to "front up".     And a or two stipes to put their case so yes, there was every need to have others there in addition to the JCA.    

Yes, quite correct, eljay.

Incidentally, my edition of today's Press shows the winner as   ...   Mekong Express with a First 4 of 8/5/1/6 paying $647.60.

I wonder how many may have wandered in to their TAB today, not having seen the race, expecting a nice payout.

 

 

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4 hours ago, eljay said:

If Michael contested the action - which you originally said happened and which is confirmed by the Stipes Raceday report, then it's obvious he would have had to "front up".     And a or two stipes to put their case so yes, there was every need to have others there in addition to the JCA.    

The Stipes were already there,  so 30minutes to decide an open and shut case is absurd, how long to decide a difficult one???

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15 minutes ago, Brodie said:

The Stipes were already there,  so 30minutes to decide an open and shut case is absurd, how long to decide a difficult one???

Questions for you Brodie...

How long did it take to give Raymond Reekie 2 and a half years?

How long does it take to get samples back from Jewels day?

How long does it take to decide a drug charge against a trainer?

How long does it take for a stipe to put his suit on for a day at the races?

So the answer to your question is...your guess is as good as mine.

 

 

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46 minutes ago, Brodie said:

So what was the reason Mr House contested the protest then Fartoomuch?????

Because you are an expert on rules and procedures you will be able to answer this song you????

What possible case could Mr House possibly put forward that required 30 minutes or so to decide, seriously!!!

You really need to read the posts you respond to in your own obnoxious way. But to assist you here we go once again!!

The RIU bring the charges based on  HRNZ rules. In this instance Mickey Mouses trotter galloped short of and eventually over the line. Given the lap on rules it was put out. For whatever reason the Driver is entitled to view film and ask for case to be heard before JCA if he thinks he has a case for non relegation under lap on rules. In this case he failed but due process /natural justice was adhered to and that simply takes time.

Ive tried to make it as simple as i can but somehow it will probably never be enough for you Brodie.

 

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24 minutes ago, Fartoomuch said:

You really need to read the posts you respond to in your own obnoxious way. But to assist you here we go once again!!

The RIU bring the charges based on  HRNZ rules. In this instance Mickey Mouses trotter galloped short of and eventually over the line. Given the lap on rules it was put out. For whatever reason the Driver is entitled to view film and ask for case to be heard before JCA if he thinks he has a case for non relegation under lap on rules. In this case he failed but due process /natural justice was adhered to and that simply takes time.

Ive tried to make it as simple as i can but somehow it will probably never be enough for you Brodie.

 

You haven’t answered it at all!

What was the basis for contesting the charge of galloping over the line and being lapped on, Fartoomuch!

He galloped well short of the line in so much as he would have clearly known he was in breach!

All the JCAor Stipes needed to say to Mr House was your horse galloped well short of the line and was lapped on and no interference,.

What on earth could have changed that??????

How long would it take to show Mr House the finish of the race and for him to say OK I will be relegated.

Fartoomuch, I reiterate what could be any simpler???

If it takes 30minutes to decide the obvious, I can now see why they don’t like having enquiries as it would take all day to decide something that had a bit more difficulty!!!!!

How you can defend the length of time taken to decide defies logic, as even Mark McNamara even said at the end of the race that it would be relegated!!!!

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12 minutes ago, Brodie said:

You haven’t answered it at all!

What was the basis for contesting the charge of galloping over the line and being lapped on, Fartoomuch!

He galloped well short of the line in so much as he would have clearly known he was in breach!

All the JCAor Stipes needed to say to Mr House was your horse galloped well short of the line and was lapped on and no interference,.

What on earth could have changed that??????

How long would it take to show Mr House the finish of the race and for him to say OK I will be relegated.

Fartoomuch, I reiterate what could be any simpler???

If it takes 30minutes to decide the obvious, I can now see why they don’t like having enquiries as it would take all day to decide something that had a bit more difficulty!!!!!

 

M E Briefly hampered in the score up but recovered to retain its rightful position on the unruly. Broke after reaching the front passing the 45 metres and continued in a gallop through to the finishing line. A protest was lodged against the mare's first placing alleging this horse was lapped on by horses MOTU GREAT SENSATION, RUTHLESS SUCCESS and SUGAR CANE at the finishing line. Trainer/driver M House contested the protest and after hearing evidence tendered by Stewards and Mr House the JCA upheld the protest and MEKONG PRINCESS was relegated to 4th placing.

 

 Ring Scott Wallis, who was head of RIU at yesterday's meeting on 021568556 and bore him to death with your absurd questions. I have to say i pity him already

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3 hours ago, Fartoomuch said:

M E Briefly hampered in the score up but recovered to retain its rightful position on the unruly. Broke after reaching the front passing the 45 metres and continued in a gallop through to the finishing line. A protest was lodged against the mare's first placing alleging this horse was lapped on by horses MOTU GREAT SENSATION, RUTHLESS SUCCESS and SUGAR CANE at the finishing line. Trainer/driver M House contested the protest and after hearing evidence tendered by Stewards and Mr House the JCA upheld the protest and MEKONG PRINCESS was relegated to 4th placing.

 

 Ring Scott Wallis, who was head of RIU at yesterday's meeting on 021568556 and bore him to death with your absurd questions. I have to say i pity him already

Stop quoting irrelevant stuff Fartoomuch!

I ask again, why did it take 30 minutes to make a decision when it was clearly so simple????

What you submitted just shows that it was blatantly clear that there was no defence and the result should have been decided inside 10 minutes maximum!!!

The Stipes report does not state what the reason Mr House had for contesting the protest and there was no evidence whatsoever that could possibly be put forward by Mr House, unless you know otherwise, or do you know FARTOOMUCH?

 

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This post is going nowhere and cannot reach a conclusion on Race cafe. 

3 hours ago, Brodie said:

I ask again, why did it take 30 minutes to make a decision when it was clearly so simple????

You have made your point Brodie but no one here can answer your question. I suggest you contact HRNZ by email and then let  us all know the answer to your worries.  

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4 hours ago, harewood said:

This post is going nowhere and cannot reach a conclusion on Race cafe. 

You have made your point Brodie but no one here can answer your question. I suggest you contact HRNZ by email and then let  us all know the answer to your worries.  

Agreed Harewood , i tried to assist and even gave him the Stipes phone number but was told to stop posting irrelevant stuff- go figure.

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3 hours ago, Fartoomuch said:

Agreed Harewood , i tried to assist and even gave him the Stipes phone number but was told to stop posting irrelevant stuff- go figure.

I apologise profusely for asking the question as to why such a simple enquirey takes 30 minutes to resolve?

There is no mention whatsoever in the RIU Stipes report as to the grounds that Mr House contested the protest, which I beleive should be included in the report!

If it wasn’t the last race how much would this protest had held up the racing by, and how much lost revenue would there have been?

I was also under the illusion that this site is a site for discussion and people’s opinions?

Clearly some think it is not, but to rather defend things without logic!

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Hi Brodie,

The answer to your question is, no one on Race Cafe knows. There is any number of possibilities, but perhaps you could help us all by ringing Mr House and explaining about being unhappy that his side of the protest not being made public in the Stipes report, and let us know. It would be great if you could do this for us, and we can all then be fully informed.

Cheers.

Robert.

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Any number of factors could have held up this protest. Michael may have had to first head back to the stable to assist with the the horse before he was able to make his way back to the stipes room - and if he was located down the far end of the track then there's 10-15 minutes from the time the race finished, even if he did just dump the horse and run. 

From replays it looks like first and second were easy to see as being lapped on, but third was a little closer and by protesting, which he has every right to do, that would have drawn the process out even further. Then a decision has to be made which also takes a little amount of time too. 

So although, to us, the untrained, it may look like a relatively straight forward process. Often that's not the case. 

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Counter punch makes some good points. Here's my take on it.  First they have to establish whether it gollped over 50m,as automatically disqualified if it did. Looked like it galloped after the white coloured 50 m pylon,the one with a different colour to the rest. Ok there. Then they had to decide had it gained an advantage in a gallop. o.k. there.  Then they had to decide the lapped on part. A horse laps on another horse if its head is in line with any part of the galloping horses body,including its tail.  That's why it went back to 4th.  Factor into that.michael house probably enjoys listening to himself talking,(I have the same problem),then factor in JCA member having to down a glass of  speights prior to commencement of hearing due to having eaten too much crayfish, factor in what counter punch has said,and whala, there you have the receipe for a drawn out 30 minute delay. I agree 30 minutes seemed rather long.

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2 hours ago, Brodie said:

I apologise profusely for asking the question as to why such a simple enquirey takes 30 minutes to resolve?

There is no mention whatsoever in the RIU Stipes report as to the grounds that Mr House contested the protest, which I beleive should be included in the report!

If it wasn’t the last race how much would this protest had held up the racing by, and how much lost revenue would there have been?

I was also under the illusion that this site is a site for discussion and people’s opinions?

Clearly some think it is not, but to rather defend things without logic!

Ring Scott Wallis, who was head of RIU at the meeting on 021568556 and ask him. Simple really

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Some good points made in regards to why it took 30 minutes to uphold a blatantly clear breach of the RULES, which as you know I always agree with!!

I put it out there asking why it would have taken so long when it was an open and shut case that should have been decided in half that time.

It was easy to see that the 4th horse was easily within the lap on of Mekong Princess as it says half a length.

If the race was in the middle of the card would there have been so much dicking around then?

Point I was trying to make is that I would hate to see how long a race could be held up if there was a complicated enquirey and also I can see why they don’t like the siren going very often!

The reason for Mr House contesting the enquirey should also be printed in the report shouldn’t it?.

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1 hour ago, Brodie said:

Some good points made in regards to why it took 30 minutes to uphold a blatantly clear breach of the RULES, which as you know I always agree with!!

I put it out there asking why it would have taken so long when it was an open and shut case that should have been decided in half that time.

It was easy to see that the 4th horse was easily within the lap on of Mekong Princess as it says half a length.

If the race was in the middle of the card would there have been so much dicking around then?

Point I was trying to make is that I would hate to see how long a race could be held up if there was a complicated enquirey and also I can see why they don’t like the siren going very often!

The reason for Mr House contesting the enquirey should also be printed in the report shouldn’t it?.

Taking into account the often horrific nature of the angle at Kaikoura and also that Mekong Princess and Sugar Cane were four or five cart widths apart, perhaps it wasn't such an "open and shut case" 

A lot of the more detailed information from these decisions will be posted on the JCA website, so I would suggest it will be worth waiting to see what is written in there. 

 

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2 hours ago, Counter Punch said:

Taking into account the often horrific nature of the angle at Kaikoura and also that Mekong Princess and Sugar Cane were four or five cart widths apart, perhaps it wasn't such an "open and shut case" 

A lot of the more detailed information from these decisions will be posted on the JCA website, so I would suggest it will be worth waiting to see what is written in there. 

 

I suppose but the judge seemed to sort out placings out pretty quickly on race day!

I will look forward to see what it says about why  Mr House could have possibly tried to contest the protest as it was pretty obvious that there was no obvious reason to contest it????

Should’ve been sorted a hell of a lot quicker than it was and most punters would know that.

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