what a post 811 Report post Posted October 23, 2017 Why is it horses like Alpha rock and Mon Richie do not have have to trial after performing like they did at ashburton today.. Surely that should have been the case,either that or stood down or given some type of warning. Both horses have performed similarly in the past. Happy Sunrise and Sickopunter 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise 554 Report post Posted October 23, 2017 Agreed but there is no consistency in anything the stipes do. Think about Raymond Reekie and Zakspatrol...the drive on Ohoka Johnny and today the drive on Quite Ideal by Matty Williamson when he left the 1-1. If that wasn't diminishing the chances of a horse I don't know what is. Be interesting to see what happens there. And you think they are worried about consistency with standing down horses who have heart issues. You would think with all the hoopla about horse welfare that this would be mandatory. If you have worries about the whip and implement a rule like that for the safety of the horses, surely their health is just as important. If not more. But as I said over the Reekie episode. There is no consistency. It is all a load of f**ing shit. I say that seriously. Does my frikking head in. Wannabearacecafer 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
what a post 811 Report post Posted October 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Happy Sunrise said: Agreed but there is no consistency in anything the stipes do. Think about Raymond Reekie and Zakspatrol...the drive on Ohoka Johnny and today the drive on Quite Ideal by Matty Williamson when he left the 1-1. If that wasn't diminishing the chances of a horse I don't know what is. Be interesting to see what happens there. And you think they are worried about consistency with standing down horses who have heart issues. You would think with all the hoopla about horse welfare that this would be mandatory. If you have worries about the whip and implement a rule like that for the safety of the horses, surely their health is just as important. If not more. But as I said over the Reekie episode. There is no consistency. It is all a load of f**ing shit. I say that seriously. Does my frikking head in. I guess if we look closely enough we will always find some inconsistencies, some are a bit obvious sometimes. I agree with your comments re the quite ideal drive.I see they are looking into that. Mr Williamson normally rates them better than that although is noticeably going through a patch of attacking driving at the moment. I thought the drive that would have been looked at was the drive on The Dominator. ivanthegreat 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sickopunter 403 Report post Posted October 23, 2017 3 hours ago, what a post said: Why is it horses like Alpha rock and Mon Richie do not have have to trial after performing like they did at ashburton today.. Surely that should have been the case,either that or stood down or given some type of warning. Both horses have performed similarly in the past. They would in HK which is an area that has its shit together. Enough said. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimtapper 7 Report post Posted October 24, 2017 20 hours ago, what a post said: I guess if we look closely enough we will always find some inconsistencies, some are a bit obvious sometimes. I agree with your comments re the quite ideal drive.I see they are looking into that. Mr Williamson normally rates them better than that although is noticeably going through a patch of attacking driving at the moment. I thought the drive that would have been looked at was the drive on The Dominator. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
what a post 811 Report post Posted October 24, 2017 14 minutes ago, kimtapper said: Did my words make you speechless kim? not like you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimtapper 7 Report post Posted October 24, 2017 I did not see anything wrong with the drive on The Dominator on Monday.Have you trained a 'trotting"winner? Experts more knowledgeable than us two say that it takes 100s of miles to "make" a nice trotter. The 4yr old horse was only having his 8th start and therefore a lot to learn. This horse could have followed the 3 wide train around at the 1200 metres but in my opinion would have been left to die out there the last 1000 metres. Would Jen Jacka with top driver and 6 wins including 2 NZ records to her name hand up the parked spot to a 2 win horse ???? I feel it could have broken his heart very early in his career. I must admit he ran a HUGE last 1/4 for 2nd but would have got nothing imho if he went early. P/S I have a new name for your next horse- "HERE COMES"A Winner!!!! Maybe Cup Day???? Cheers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimtapper 7 Report post Posted October 24, 2017 Sorry i pushed wrong button lol.Does the above make you 'speechless" lol?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil 333 Report post Posted October 24, 2017 12 minutes ago, kimtapper said: I did not see anything wrong with the drive on The Dominator on Monday.Have you trained a 'trotting"winner? Experts more knowledgeable than us two say that it takes 100s of miles to "make" a nice trotter. The 4yr old horse was only having his 8th start and therefore a lot to learn. This horse could have followed the 3 wide train around at the 1200 metres but in my opinion would have been left to die out there the last 1000 metres. Would Jen Jacka with top driver and 6 wins including 2 NZ records to her name hand up the parked spot to a 2 win horse ???? I feel it could have broken his heart very early in his career. Totally agree. I've seen too many inexperienced horses ruined by drivers who've treated them as though they're Flashing Red. kimtapper and Belinda 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
what a post 811 Report post Posted October 24, 2017 That's the real kim. Fully agree that it will gain a lot of confidence and experience from the run. I'm not talking from an owner/trainers perspective. They are obviously doing a very good job with this horse. Good luck to them in the future.My comments relate to the drive. You do realize that the race had a lot of punters money on it?You know with that comes some responsibilities. Correct me if I'm wrong, i thought the job of any driver was to give their horse a chance of finishing in the highest possible position. if you think I was suggesting Mr McNally should have gone round the field to sit parked,,then you are totally wrong. However I think it pretty obvious that the manner he drove between the 800m and the 300m diminished his horses chances,and in my opinion should have received some attention from officials. He was favourite . As you know I will always say what I think,and in this case I believe the driver should have got a 3 week suspension. Still I don't make these decisions, and realize its just my opinion.I don't worry what other people say about my opinions. I'm not suggesting there was any intention not to try and win, it was just it took a very sub standard drive to lose. Had there been a rule in place requiring notification of a change of tactics then maybe I would not be expressing the same opinion. However there is no such rule,so no obligation on anyone,past or future to let the public know if different tactics are to be used. Are any of the others out of that breed shaping up well. Does your brother have any? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise 554 Report post Posted October 24, 2017 1 hour ago, what a post said: Had there been a rule in place requiring notification of a change of tactics But on the odd occasion, some trainers do notify of changes in driving tactics before a race. Often far too late to be of use to a punter. Changes in driving tactics certainly come out after the race especially in the stipes room. That is for sure! On the whole, tactics are private, which is fair enough and don't need to be exposed. It is gambling after all. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
what a post 811 Report post Posted October 24, 2017 57 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said: But on the odd occasion, some trainers do notify of changes in driving tactics before a race. Often far too late to be of use to a punter. Changes in driving tactics certainly come out after the race especially in the stipes room. That is for sure! On the whole, tactics are private, which is fair enough and don't need to be exposed. It is gambling after all. Maybe you can just put it down to gambling. Personally I expect better. I just thought it was the most obvious talking point of the day. The problem in this case was the horse went so good it made the driver look so bad. Highlighting negative drives is not really my thing ,Personally I can only think of a couple ive mentioned Next raceday there will be something else to talk about. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Report post Posted October 24, 2017 Thought it was a very poor drive, as it was still last at about the 100m and ran second????? Certainty beaten, and considering it had been driven hard and sitting parked at its 2previous starts and gone great, there should have been questions asked! But that is being negative again I suppose, and we aren’t meant to question anything in harness, just leave it to officialdom as they make the rules. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kotare_Hunter 748 Report post Posted October 24, 2017 9 hours ago, Brodie said: But that is being negative again I suppose, and we aren’t meant to question anything in harness, just leave it to officialdom as they make the rules. Just be yourself man. Life's too short to be someone else. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimtapper 7 Report post Posted October 24, 2017 12 hours ago, what a post said: Maybe you can just put it down to gambling. Personally I expect better. I just thought it was the most obvious talking point of the day. The problem in this case was the horse went so good it made the driver look so bad. Highlighting negative drives is not really my thing ,Personally I can only think of a couple ive mentioned Next raceday there will be something else to talk about. From a gambling point of view I'm disappointed in your analysis of this race.I respect your tipping and knowledge of betting but how could you tip a 7 start 4yr old to beat a 6 win horse with 2 NZ records to her name plus could have started (with scratchings)in the Group race.The Dominator only got 30 metres start plus he was unruly!! IMHO Jen Jacka was the tip of the day at the odds. Would the horse finished any closer than he did if he moved from the 1200???I say NO-you say YES?? As an aside you do know trotters take time and yourself have started a few with time on their side if i remember correctly??? Cheers Kim. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Report post Posted October 25, 2017 1 hour ago, kimtapper said: From a gambling point of view I'm disappointed in your analysis of this race.I respect your tipping and knowledge of betting but how could you tip a 7 start 4yr old to beat a 6 win horse with 2 NZ records to her name plus could have started (with scratchings)in the Group race.The Dominator only got 30 metres start plus he was unruly!! IMHO Jen Jacka was the tip of the day at the odds. Would the horse finished any closer than he did if he moved from the 1200???I say NO-you say YES?? As an aside you do know trotters take time and yourself have started a few with time on their side if i remember correctly??? Cheers Kim. Kim, the horse was the biggest certainty beaten on the day! Hindsight is a great thing, but there were many chances for the driver to move and at least put the horse in the race, which he didn’t. Cant see how you can talk about the horse dieing if 3 side from the 100ometres on the big Ashburton course? The driver had no problem at all in its previous starts of driving it aggressively and still sticking on for 1st and second! Kim, the horse was an extremely short favourite and went massive and I beleive the punters that offloaded on it with their hard earned money deserved the horse to be driven with aggression earlier than the 100metres. It is your perogative to defend the drive but most will think it was very poor judgement from the driver. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sickopunter 403 Report post Posted October 25, 2017 1 minute ago, Brodie said: Kim, the horse was the biggest certainty beaten on the day! Hindsight is a great thing, but there were many chances for the driver to move and at least put the horse in the race, which he didn’t. Cant see how you can talk about the horse dieing if 3 side from the 100ometres on the big Ashburton course? The driver had no problem at all in its previous starts of driving it aggressively and still sticking on for 1st and second! Kim, the horse was an extremely short favourite and went massive and I beleive the punters that offloaded on it with their hard earned money deserved the horse to be driven with aggression earlier than the 100metres. It is your perogative to defend the drive but most will think it was very poor judgement from the driver! Agree it was a poor drive. Agree it was given no hope to win. Extremely short favourite? Thejanitor 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Report post Posted October 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Sickopunter said: Agree it was a poor drive. Agree it was given no hope to win. Extremely short favourite? It was extremely short for what it should’ve been against a step up in opposition. Showed a hell of a lot more finishing speed than it had showed previously I thought. Has huge potential going by its finishing sprint over the last 100metres. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
what a post 811 Report post Posted October 25, 2017 7 hours ago, kimtapper said: From a gambling point of view I'm disappointed in your analysis of this race.I respect your tipping and knowledge of betting but how could you tip a 7 start 4yr old to beat a 6 win horse with 2 NZ records to her name plus could have started (with scratchings)in the Group race.The Dominator only got 30 metres start plus he was unruly!! IMHO Jen Jacka was the tip of the day at the odds. Would the horse finished any closer than he did if he moved from the 1200???I say NO-you say YES?? As an aside you do know trotters take time and yourself have started a few with time on their side if i remember correctly??? Cheers Kim. Hi Kimbo. I never tipped it. I actually agreed with everything you said in your first paragraph, pre race anyway.. I agree with sickopunter and Brodie views on the drive. Very surprised that drive was not looked at by the stipes,as it sets a very poor precedent. Like the always on the money brodster,i look forward to seeing how it progresses. You might want to dust off the mothballs and spiderwebs in your wallet and talk the owners into taking you in as a partner in the mares more recent progeny. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
what a post 811 Report post Posted October 25, 2017 Watched the box seat and saw micky g refer to people as kids who go on social media and complain about bad drives. What a guy. Anyone feel a bit discombobulated after that comment. Obviously would object to 90% of racecafe. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimtapper 7 Report post Posted October 25, 2017 On 10/23/2017 at 7:08 PM, what a post said: Why is it horses like Alpha rock and Mon Richie do not have have to trial after performing like they did at ashburton today.. Surely that should have been the case,either that or stood down or given some type of warning. Both horses have performed similarly in the past. 9 minutes ago, what a post said: Watched the box seat and saw micky g refer to people as kids who go on social media and complain about bad drives. What a guy. Anyone feel a bit discombobulated after that comment. Obviously would object to 90% of racecafe. I can't possibly reply to this comment because i dont know what that "BIG "word means lol.But my last word on The Dominators run-Could you or Brodie please explain to me the difference between Nat's Drive and Blairs drive in the 2 big races compared to Bose in lower class trot???? Cheers Kim. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
what a post 811 Report post Posted October 25, 2017 2 hours ago, kimtapper said: I can't possibly reply to this comment because i dont know what that "BIG "word means lol.But my last word on The Dominators run-Could you or Brodie please explain to me the difference between Nat's Drive and Blairs drive in the 2 big races compared to Bose in lower class trot???? Cheers Kim. Sure. My last word as well. The big word is one of micky g's favourite words. I'm guessing he was a scrabble champion when he was a kid. I suppose not much else to do on those wet west coast days. That and checking the mirror every 10 minutes. As far as the drives go. Heaven rocks was 3 lengths from leader,3 back outside following lazarus with 800m to run. Pulled out at 300m. Habibi ivy was 4 back the outside with 800m to run,pulled out with 400m to run. ..... The dominator was 6 back the outside,6 lengths from leader,following known sit sprinter,angled in,not out at the top of the straight,then pulled out with 250m to run. Lesson over kimbo. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sickopunter 403 Report post Posted October 25, 2017 3 hours ago, what a post said: Watched the box seat and saw micky g refer to people as kids who go on social media and complain about bad drives. What a guy. Anyone feel a bit discombobulated after that comment. Obviously would object to 90% of racecafe. Yep, fan of Micks in general but punters have a right to an opinion, this is just a good place for people to meet and exchange views. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelseacol 2,488 Report post Posted October 25, 2017 7 hours ago, Sickopunter said: Yep, fan of Micks in general but punters have a right to an opinion, this is just a good place for people to meet and exchange views. I'm exactly the same Sicko - like him generally - and often for the fact he will say what he thinks and put his neck on the line with an opinion (yeah not always but he does do this) Bit hypocritical to bag others that do the same. Happy Sunrise 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kotare_Hunter 748 Report post Posted October 25, 2017 8 hours ago, what a post said: I'm guessing he was a scrabble champion when he was a kid. I suppose not much else to do on those wet west coast days. That and checking the mirror every 10 minutes. Never won the Area 7805 Cup but wouldn't rule out him being Street Champion at some stage. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...