RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
Iraklis

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6 hours ago, Brodie said:

Iraklis, to discuss things that affect the industry maaaaate.

Everything is not Rosie when the Ashburton Flying Stakes for 50k has 8 starters and 6 are from the same stable!

We need to grow the owner base not diminish it!

It is great that you love to watch good horses race and your passion is nice.

However without ownership and punters offloading you will not get to see harness racing in 10 years time.

True to a point Brodie. While they probably are well heeled, among the All Stars runners there are  (I think) more than 15 individual owners so there is a degree of participation well spread. I don't think anyone can deny they simply do it better.

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46 minutes ago, Iraklis said:

Not opposed opposite opinions FTMuch, but when the negativity is all that stands out from the same guy hijacks a thread that was started in a positive vein, Chelseacol puts it well, 'it turns into a bitch session bout brodies gripes.....and yes brodie racecafe is open to one and all however, I invite you to 'start your own appropriate thread' about your pet moans or whatever, and if you had read the start of this thread, 2nd post from me (and something I have posted on numerous occasions since comin in here 2000) you would know the answer to that question! and for your info 'you do not have to be a punter mate to enjoy the sport!!!' that I do know.........I love the horses for the awesome equine athletes they are, the power of seein them do what they were bred to do and do it well, if thats a 'lovathon' then so be it 'I'M FRICKN LOVIN IT! LOVATHON ON!!!!' :D

Chelseacol couldn't have said it better, wouldn't you rather be talkin about the beaut day of racin that was had by all? look at the main trot for one, the mighty Stent is back bloody awesome to see, and hey was Habibti Ivy's run a ripper or what? I know fans of the sport would rather enjoy the excitement of the occasion see the horseflesh on display, watch the races for the enjoyment of it, socialise, have punt and a pint, and reflect on the spectacle of it all......that's what it's about, not this other rubbish!

Question: brodie after all these years of you and your snipin and gripin what the hell have you done about it? exactly? you've obviously got alot of issue's with Harness Racing mate, well why continue to voice it here, its clearly not workin for you; why not got straight to HRNZ with your ideas, predictions and or solutions etc get elected to HRNZ board/committee and go for it I say.....

 

Cheers Iraklis

Iraklis, love your passion for the feature races in harness racing!

You are also correct that you don’t have to be a punter to enjoy harness racing!

Thing is though that if we didn’t have punters then there would be no owners, no trainers, no horses and no racing.

The fact is that I am a punter and therefore have the right to question decisions being made by people that I consider not to be right?

The day that we are not given the right to question stupid decisions then our democracy is dead!

Whether people agree with me doesn’t concern me, as in my mind there is reason to question and I will,always continue to do so, and that has worked for me so far in life!

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9 minutes ago, Blue said:

True to a point Brodie. While they probably are well heeled, among the All Stars runners there are  (I think) more than 15 individual owners so there is a degree of participation well spread. I don't think anyone can deny they simply do it better.

Blue totally agree that they simply do it better!

Not denying the fact, that they are phenomenal at what they do.

Totally unmatched now and will not happen again.

What is happening though as you know, is that whenever AllStars line up they normally win, whether it is a maiden race or group races.

When you have a total monopoly of the one stable filling the placings in every group race in the country, you are going to be losing owners rather than grabbing new ones.

Why would anyone pay big money for a yearling at the sales in the hope that they have one good enough to beat the AllStars in the big stake races?

I also respect the owners of the AllStars horses as they pour huge amounts of money into the AllStars stable and certainly deserve success but is it not to the detriment of all the other owners of horses in other stables, that have little chance of placing in the group races?

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2 hours ago, Kotare_Hunter said:

Are you sure that is advertised somewhere ?

Kotare, no the TAB doesn’t advertise or advise us what amount of money is going on any of the races by the Bookies

All we know is that they generally only take win bets now to net $2000 before they cut the odds.

Yes there is the occasional larger bet on something that they take and generally it Would be a bet from a known losing punter..

Winning punters can not get much on!

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1 hour ago, Brodie said:

Kotare, no the TAB doesn’t advertise or advise us what amount of money is going on any of the races by the Bookies

All we know is that they generally only take win bets now to net $2000 before they cut the odds.

Yes there is the occasional larger bet on something that they take and generally it Would be a bet from a known losing punter..

Winning punters can not get much on!

Sensible business model for fixed odds wagering.

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1 hour ago, Brodie said:

Blue totally agree that they simply do it better!

Not denying the fact, that they are phenomenal at what they do.

Totally unmatched now and will not happen again.

What is happening though as you know, is that whenever AllStars line up they normally win, whether it is a maiden race or group races.

When you have a total monopoly of the one stable filling the placings in every group race in the country, you are going to be losing owners rather than grabbing new ones.

Why would anyone pay big money for a yearling at the sales in the hope that they have one good enough to beat the AllStars in the big stake races?

I also respect the owners of the AllStars horses as they pour huge amounts of money into the AllStars stable and certainly deserve success but is it not to the detriment of all the other owners of horses in other stables, that have little chance of placing in the group races?

Another of those issues where we go round in circles, call it tall poppy, call it whatever you like. What's the solution. Sure the punter (in decreasing numbers) puts the money in but the owner takes a bigger punt in buying, preparing and getting his horse to the races so any return is a good return and I know in my own case, I don't give a toss about the punter. While I might have a lick at my own horses I prefer to get a slice back, however small, of a $10K stake because I'm generally not going to get that from punting. But, again, what's the solution? We actually need more role models not less. Similar points have been made about the AS in the Sires Stakes. I put it to you that if they were to swap their first 4 placegetters with the following four, they could probably get them going three seconds faster too, such is their expertise.

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17 minutes ago, Blue said:

Another of those issues where we go round in circles, call it tall poppy, call it whatever you like. What's the solution. Sure the punter (in decreasing numbers) puts the money in but the owner takes a bigger punt in buying, preparing and getting his horse to the races so any return is a good return and I know in my own case, I don't give a toss about the punter. While I might have a lick at my own horses I prefer to get a slice back, however small, of a $10K stake because I'm generally not going to get that from punting. But, again, what's the solution? We actually need more role models not less. Similar points have been made about the AS in the Sires Stakes. I put it to you that if they were to swap their first 4 placegetters with the following four, they could probably get them going three seconds faster too, such is their expertise.

Of course we need the owners, Blue.

Without the punter investingthen we don’t need owners or horses as costs will be more than profits from the TAB.

No it is not the tall poppy syndrome at all, it is the tall poppy syndrome from the TAB by stopping successful punters.

Totally agree regards role models Blue, but the TAB don’t see it that way!

Yes of course the AllStars would improve every horse that goes to them!

 

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The Brodster is on the money about one thing: punters are an enormously important, perhaps the most important, group in racing.  Without them, there would be no racing, or at least not as we know it.  Presumably we can all agree on that.

But The Brodster has the blinkers, not the money, on when it comes to recognising that punting is not the *only* important thing in racing, or that many people actually enjoy racing for its own sake.

So come on Brodie.  Feel free to keep engaging in your one-man wars against the TAB, the stewards, the Purdons, HRNZ, horse welfare etc etc --- the rest of us will no doubt push back a bit in order to keep you honest and to provide a bit of entertainment.  But as Iraklis has pointed out, if you're going to insist on hijacking threads that are about racing-for-racing's-sake, which you clearly have no interest in, then you can hardly complain if you end up getting belittled as a result.

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3 hours ago, Basil said:

The Brodster is on the money about one thing: punters are an enormously important, perhaps the most important, group in racing.  Without them, there would be no racing, or at least not as we know it.  Presumably we can all agree on that.

But The Brodster has the blinkers, not the money, on when it comes to recognising that punting is not the *only* important thing in racing, or that many people actually enjoy racing for its own sake.

So come on Brodie.  Feel free to keep engaging in your one-man wars against the TAB, the stewards, the Purdons, HRNZ, horse welfare etc etc --- the rest of us will no doubt push back a bit in order to keep you honest and to provide a bit of entertainment.  But as Iraklis has pointed out, if you're going to insist on hijacking threads that are about racing-for-racing's-sake, which you clearly have no interest in, then you can hardly complain if you end up getting belittled as a result.

Basil, you can belittle me as much as you like, if that’s what you want to call it?

Just because I speak my mind doesn’t mean it is a one man war against anything Basil.

Reality is that not everything is fair and reasonable in this world and the fact that you think that everything is so rosy with harness racing in NZ is not going to improve things, is it?

Maybe Just Maybe Basil, if you took your blinkers off and looked at the points I make, you and your mates will see that I am the one that talks the sense.

However, I know you won’t!!!!!

 

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Oh geezuz brodie :rolleyes: 'without punters' there'd be no harness racing what bloody rubbish! without the initial input of the owners, breeders, trainers, stablehands, drivers etc there'd be no harness racing! punters could disappear, and harness racing would still truck on, as it has done since the very beginning....why? its the competition! since the first carriage horse trotted triumphantly past the mates carriage horse :) on the way home from town all those many moons ago, there was COMPETITION.....dude you'd moan if there was nothin to moan about, I know plenty of trainers, breeders, owners, stablehands, who don't give a toss about the betting public at large, they just want to go about the business of gettin a horse first off, then to the races and if they do see it remains sound & racing and hopefully after all that turns out to be a bloody good one......if owners (mares & stallions) don't breed you don't got nothin to punt on!

Chevy86, Purdon = teflon :D yep the speed at which he constantly turns out bloody good horses nothin sticks, why? cos they're too bloody fast!!!!

 

Cheers Iraklis

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2 hours ago, Iraklis said:

Oh geezuz brodie :rolleyes: 'without punters' there'd be no harness racing what bloody rubbish! without the initial input of the owners, breeders, trainers, stablehands, drivers etc there'd be no harness racing! punters could disappear, and harness racing would still truck on, as it has done since the very beginning....why? its the competition! since the first carriage horse trotted triumphantly past the mates carriage horse :) on the way home from town all those many moons ago, there was COMPETITION.....dude you'd moan if there was nothin to moan about, I know plenty of trainers, breeders, owners, stablehands, who don't give a toss about the betting public at large, they just want to go about the business of gettin a horse first off, then to the races and if they do see it remains sound & racing and hopefully after all that turns out to be a bloody good one......if owners (mares & stallions) don't breed you don't got nothin to punt on!

Chevy86, Purdon = teflon :D yep the speed at which he constantly turns out bloody good horses nothin sticks, why? cos they're too bloody fast!!!!

 

Cheers Iraklis

Iraklis, if there were no punters there would be no racing so we wouldn’t need owners horses or trainers.

What owner is going to pay large training bills if there was no stake money to race for?

Cos if no punting no one to pay for the stakes unless sponsors were prepared to cough up 10 k per race

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Listening to Brodie is enough to make one want to get out the wrist slashers.  All trainers are awful (except for the Purdons, who shouldn't be allowed), all drivers are awful (except when they're being shafted by the stipes, who are also awful), the rules are awful, the courses are awful, the races are awful, the weather is awful, and the bookies are uber-awful.

It's like having one's own personal Dementor (which even a Patronus in the form of Lazarus or Secretariat might not be powerful enough to overcome!:lol:)

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16 minutes ago, Basil said:

Listening to Brodie is enough to make one want to get out the wrist slashers.  All trainers are awful (except for the Purdons, who shouldn't be allowed), all drivers are awful (except when they're being shafted by the stipes, who are also awful), the rules are awful, the courses are awful, the races are awful, the weather is awful, and the bookies are uber-awful.

It's like having one's own personal Dementor (which even a Patronus in the form of Lazarus or Secretariat might not be powerful enough to overcome!:lol:)

Yes totally agree - a very negative person

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14 hours ago, Brodie said:

Iraklis, if there were no punters there would be no racing so we wouldn’t need owners horses or trainers.

Brodie check out racing in Dubai where they hold the Dubai World Cup and race for 40 mill prize money on the day. No betting, no punting allowed in Dubai and yet is one of the most successful days racing in the world with international horses and over 60000 people attending. Just for fun. No bookies in sight so punters are not necessarily the No 1  reason to have a successful racing jurisdiction. 

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Basil mate ah ha ha ha ROFLMFAO ha ha ha Bazza mate you just gave me the best laugh of the frickn month :D stop it stop it hang on, ah just get me sh!t together......alrighty then now I'm back (calm now)

BOOM!!! Harewood right on! the very point brodie is missin they love the spirit of the whole thing, the frickn competition, and they make it a spectacle gawd do they what! yeh boy.....

 

Cheers Iraklis

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6 hours ago, harewood said:

Brodie check out racing in Dubai where they hold the Dubai World Cup and race for 40 mill prize money on the day. No betting, no punting allowed in Dubai and yet is one of the most successful days racing in the world with international horses and over 60000 people attending. Just for fun. No bookies in sight so punters are not necessarily the No 1  reason to have a successful racing jurisdiction. 

Harewood, so you are confident that we would still have harness racing in NZ if we had no punters?...

You are kidding!

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9 hours ago, Basil said:

Listening to Brodie is enough to make one want to get out the wrist slashers.  All trainers are awful (except for the Purdons, who shouldn't be allowed), all drivers are awful (except when they're being shafted by the stipes, who are also awful), the rules are awful, the courses are awful, the races are awful, the weather is awful, and the bookies are uber-awful.

It's like having one's own personal Dementor (which even a Patronus in the form of Lazarus or Secretariat might not be powerful enough to overcome!:lol:)

Basil, it is attitudes like your head in the sand and agreeing with everything, is why Harness is struggling to attract new people and in fact losing people!

When have Insaid all trainers are awful?

When have Insaid all drivers are awful?

Not all rules are awful but some of the recent ones implemented are blatantly stupid and brought in for the wrong reasons!

When have I ever said the courses are awful?

Yes I have said that the Bookies are not that flash as their business plan is seriously flawed!

The problem with many is that they will not speak their mind and just goes with anything that is put in front of them, and clearly you are one of them!

 

 

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brodie I say again, if you are so right on the ball, and your concerns are of such magnitude then whats the point of moaning in here, seriously! have you affected change moanin in here? are there people in here who can take on board your probs/issues/suggestions possible solutions? do your moaning where it counts HRNZ, for chrissakes put your issues, suggestions, solutions, dire predictions in writing and get it to them! attend their meetings get yourself elected whatever! do bloody something more constructive to get heard by the organisation and people who can actually affect changes you consider harness racing needs.......this is a chatroom right, a place to come for a chat and yes to a degree catch up socialise share and discuss, but your constant moans tell me for one, you haven't been able to affect the changes you so sorely seek, thus you clearly haven't got your points across to the right people! news flash! you won't find them in here!!! the organisation at the top is where you need to go! so get on with it...........

 

Cheers Iraklis

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3 hours ago, Brodie said:

Harewood, so you are confident that we would still have harness racing in NZ if we had no punters?...

You are kidding!

Brodie, I am just making a point that shows the punter is not the be all and end all of a sucessfull racing climate. Not quoting NZ, Aust etc just that racing can survive, and very sucessfully without the punter in the right environment. 

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1 hour ago, harewood said:

Brodie, I am just making a point that shows the punter is not the be all and end all of a sucessfull racing climate. Not quoting NZ, Aust etc just that racing can survive, and very sucessfully without the punter in the right environment. 

Harewood, no you are wrong in saying that racing will survive without punters!

You are kidding if you think owners are going to pay thousands per month to trainers to,race for no stake money!

The Raceday attendances are shocking already and you think that people are going to,turn up to,the track to watch the horses run around without punting???????

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37 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Harewood, no you are wrong in saying that racing will survive without punters!

You are kidding if you think owners are going to pay thousands per month to trainers to,race for no stake money!

The Raceday attendances are shocking already and you think that people are going to,turn up to,the track to watch the horses run around without punting???????

I suggest you read Harewood's post again cos to me you are suggesting he is wrong about a lot of things which he never actually says.His observations describe racing without punting offshore eg Dubai . I suggest you go to Medan if you are ever over that way.

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On 10/25/2017 at 9:07 AM, Iraklis said:

Oh geezuz brodie :rolleyes: 'without punters' there'd be no harness racing what bloody rubbish! without the initial input of the owners, breeders, trainers, stablehands, drivers etc there'd be no harness racing! punters could disappear, and harness racing would still truck on, as it has done since the very beginning....why? its the competition! since the first carriage horse trotted triumphantly past the mates carriage horse :) on the way home from town all those many moons ago, there was COMPETITION.....dude you'd moan if there was nothin to moan about, I know plenty of trainers, breeders, owners, stablehands, who don't give a toss about the betting public at large, they just want to go about the business of gettin a horse first off, then to the races and if they do see it remains sound & racing and hopefully after all that turns out to be a bloody good one......if owners (mares & stallions) don't breed you don't got nothin to punt on!

Chevy86, Purdon = teflon :D yep the speed at which he constantly turns out bloody good horses nothin sticks, why? cos they're too bloody fast!!!!

 

Cheers Iraklis

Wrong. No money for stakes, no money for tracks, no money for staff, no money. Owners would not race for zero return. Staff, trainers, drivers would not work for zero return.

Harness Racing would not work without punting and when you think about it you know it.

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36 minutes ago, Fartoomuch said:

I suggest you read Harewood's post again cos to me you are suggesting he is wrong about a lot of things which he never actually says.His observations describe racing without punting offshore eg Dubai . I suggest you go to Medan if you are ever over that way.

Another one that thinks racing will still go on if there is no punters!!!!!!

Dubai is a hell of a lot different to NZ.

They are a very rich country that has so many wealthy people who can afford to run horses and it wouldn’t affect them financially.

You are in dreamland comparing the two countries.

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3 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Another one that thinks racing will still go on if there is no punters!!!!!!

Dubai is a hell of a lot different to NZ.

They are a very rich country that has so many wealthy people who can afford to run horses and it wouldn’t affect them financially.

You are in dreamland comparing the two countries.

Brodie you are the only one comparing the two countries. I'm sure for most it is fairly easily to decide who is a dreamland.

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