Nasrullah 180 Report post Posted October 2, 2017 I expect Nathaniel and Frankel will become the next Galileo!! Interesting pedigree point. The dams of second and third in the Arc are full sisters. Both Strawberry Fledge and Light Shift are by Kingmambo out of Lingerie. FRANCE Prix de l'Arc de Triomphe (Gr 1) Chantilly 2400 Metres 3yo+ 2017-10-01 Turf,Soft €5000000 1. ENABLE (GB) by NATHANIEL (IRE) -- CONCENTRIC (GB) (SADLER'S WELLS (USA)) bred by Juddmonte Farms Ltd trained by J. Gosden ridden by L. Dettori 2. CLOTH OF STARS (IRE) by SEA THE STARS (IRE) -- STRAWBERRY FLEDGE (USA) (KINGMAMBO (USA)) [sales history] bred by P. Anasasiou trained by A. Fabre ridden by M. Barzalona 3. ULYSSES (IRE) by GALILEO (IRE) -- LIGHT SHIFT (USA) (KINGMAMBO (USA)) bred by Flaxman Stables Ireland Ltd trained by M. Stoute ridden by J. Crowley Huey 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breeder 608 Report post Posted October 2, 2017 Also Concentric is out of a Shirley Heights mare and Lingerie is by Shirley Heights. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insider 3,947 Report post Posted October 2, 2017 Possibly augers well for Reliable Man. Sort of the same blood but in reverse. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasrullah 180 Report post Posted October 2, 2017 I agree. Now name the stallions at stud in New Zealand that have both Sadler's Wells and Shirley Heights in their pedigrees? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey 2,037 Report post Posted October 2, 2017 5 minutes ago, Nasrullah said: I agree. Now name the stallions at stud in New Zealand that have both Sadler's Wells and Shirley Heights in their pedigrees? Turn Me Loose Sweynesse Reliable Man everything with High Chap in the pedigree as well of course. Any others? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasrullah 180 Report post Posted October 2, 2017 Bullbars Jakkalberry Reliable Man Sweynesse Turn Me Loose Plus sons of High Chaparral- Contributer, Fabulous, Redwood , Tivaci Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insider 3,947 Report post Posted October 2, 2017 Gee whiz, the above mentioned lot are not too bad. I will guarantee that a higher percentage make it as successful Sires, as compared to the norm. Which ones though is the question? Here are my one or two or three: Sweynesse, Turn Me Loose, Jakkaberry, Contributor, Reliable Man and Redwood in no particular order. Use all of them and you are sure to get a couple of beauties. P.S. Redwood and Reliable Man have started off the right way so it is onwards and upwards for the rest. Nasrullah 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wincy1 1 Report post Posted October 2, 2017 My mare Starrystarrynight is by Sadler's Wells out of a Shirley Heights mare. She of course is the dam of Gust of Wind. I went to Darci Brahma three times due to Zabeel and of course Nureyev thus Special. This year's new born is by Al Maher and this is because I am going the Never Bend route, i.e. Lalun. Just like the reasons mentioned above. Also, the great mare Delicacy (before the immortal Winx came along) is bred on this cross. A side note, the horse that had beaten Winx before her unbeaten run is Gust of Wind! Breeder 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berri 2,131 Report post Posted October 3, 2017 On 2/10/2017 at 5:46 PM, Nasrullah said: I expect Nathaniel and Frankel will become the next Galileo!! Really...what drugs are you on? I want some. Nathaniel has produced a champion and statistically would be 20 lengths inferior to Galileo at the same stage. Frankel is tricky because he covered 87 group or listed mares to get to where he is. Whenever they get to a group one race they don't quite get there. Not saying they won't but at this stage his mares are carrying him. .... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasrullah 180 Report post Posted October 3, 2017 Legal drugs. Berri you made a very good point that Frankel has served the best and given the ratings of the broodmares he has served. But can you do a comparison of the quality of mares that Galileo is serving? At more expensive and private service fee Galileo would have to be serving a similar level of mares. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... 226 Report post Posted October 3, 2017 21 minutes ago, Nasrullah said: Legal drugs. Berri you made a very good point that Frankel has served the best and given the ratings of the broodmares he has served. But can you do a comparison of the quality of mares that Galileo is serving? At more expensive and private service fee Galileo would have to be serving a similar level of mares. I think Galileo deserves the best mares that are around!, he has sired 259 Stakes Winners! Including 70 individual G1 winners! Nasrullah 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breeder 608 Report post Posted October 3, 2017 BruceL I think (or hope) Nasrullah was actually "asking" for a comparison of the quality of mares Galileo served at the beginning of his stud career. That is, a like for like comparison to Frankel. Nasrullah 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... 226 Report post Posted October 4, 2017 Yeah possibly, I think he was asking for the quality of book Galileo currently serves compared to Frankel When Galileo retired he was a high profile stallion after winning The Derby, The Irish Derby an The King George as a 3yo and he was himself out of an Arc winner. I'm sure he would have served a quality book but pretty sure it wouldn't have been the quality/size of Frankel's first book, from memory Galileo sired 4 individual G1 winners from his first crop, currently Frankel is at 1 (nearly finished 3yo seasons). Nasrullah 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasrullah 180 Report post Posted October 4, 2017 See statistics below. One further very big point. Galileo's first crop statistics will not change below. However Frankel's first crop are still 3yo's! Galileo - Analysis by Crop Crop Foals Runners Winners Wins SWnrs(GWnrs) SWins(GWins) 2003 126 102 70 178 13 (7) 29 (18) Frankel- Analysis by Crop Crop Foals Rnrs Wnrs Wins SW (GW) SWs(GWs) 2014 115 87 48 91 15 (12) 22 (17) Breeder and .... 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... 226 Report post Posted October 4, 2017 Pretty similar kind of numbers, Frankel is doing a good job and Galileo definitely gathered momentum the longer his stud career has gone on ( with no signs of stopping!) , I did mention that the Frankel's are only about to finish their 3yo seasons though The stats are missing number of G1 winners though. Frankel has done very well in terms of stakes winners and general stats which no one is disputing but his progeny have struggled to win at G1 level especially in UK/Europe, he currently has the 1 G1 winner in Japan, maybe this will change and hopefully it does! Do you have the quality/stats of Galileo's first book?, I think that was what you were originally asking for/discussing not so much the stallion's record? Picking Nathaniel to be the next Galileo is a massive call though! Nasrullah 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey 214 Report post Posted October 4, 2017 On 10/2/2017 at 8:47 PM, Nasrullah said: I agree. Now name the stallions at stud in New Zealand that have both Sadler's Wells and Shirley Heights in their pedigrees? Pour moi was one Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasrullah 180 Report post Posted October 5, 2017 Frankel is obviously ahead of Galileo on SW percentage to foals and runners and they are only 3yo's. Nathaniel unlikely to be the next Galileo but the fun is getting Berri hot! Berri is right most of the time but I disagree that Galileo served a much lower level of mares.... until I see it. Like BruceL says ' When Galileo retired he was a high profile stallion after winning The Derby, The Irish Derby an The King George as a 3yo and he was himself out of an Arc winner. ' It will be very interesting to see what the Frankel's do as 4yo's and 5yo's. Obviously so many of Galileo's progeny kick goals as they get older. Foundry by Galileo got his Group One as an 8yo in the Metropolitan last week is another. And yes I forgot about Pour Moi have Sadler's Wells and Shirley Heights. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey 2,037 Report post Posted October 5, 2017 12 minutes ago, Nasrullah said: Frankel is obviously ahead of Galileo on SW percentage to foals and runners and they are only 3yo's. Nathaniel unlikely to be the next Galileo but the fun is getting Berri hot! Berri is right most of the time but I disagree that Galileo served a much lower level of mares.... until I see it. Like BruceL says ' When Galileo retired he was a high profile stallion after winning The Derby, The Irish Derby an The King George as a 3yo and he was himself out of an Arc winner. ' It will be very interesting to see what the Frankel's do as 4yo's and 5yo's. Obviously so many of Galileo's progeny kick goals as they get older. Foundry by Galileo got his Group One as an 8yo in the Metropolitan last week is another. And yes I forgot about Pour Moi have Sadler's Wells and Shirley Heights. There are also still some pretty interesting stallions who are yet to have runners or who have only just begun their careers, who could fit into the mold of taking over from Galileo like Gleneagles Golden Horn Australia Camelot Ruler of the World Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dopey 214 Report post Posted October 5, 2017 20 minutes ago, Nasrullah said: ...And yes I forgot about Pour Moi have Sadler's Wells and Shirley Heights. Yes. It will be interesting to see Haussmann (sp) this weekend in the H B guineas Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasrullah 180 Report post Posted October 7, 2017 Reliable Man had a huge day yesterday. Sadler's Well and Shirley Heights does prove to be a great recipe! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jess 1,244 Report post Posted October 8, 2017 I'm looking out to see how the Camelot progeny go ... interesting prospect ... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insider 3,947 Report post Posted October 8, 2017 10 hours ago, Nasrullah said: Reliable Man had a huge day yesterday. Sadler's Well and Shirley Heights does prove to be a great recipe! If only Avdulla HANDN'T gone from gate 9, straight over to the fence and got himself tried up in traffic the result of the Spring Champion Stakes would have been a whole lot different! As it was Reliable Man did have a huge day, but it could have been unbelievable. I think that R M is the next big thing BECAUSE they can perform in Australia which so many of ours can't. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey 2,037 Report post Posted October 8, 2017 8 hours ago, Insider said: If only Avdulla HANDN'T gone from gate 9, straight over to the fence and got himself tried up in traffic the result of the Spring Champion Stakes would have been a whole lot different! As it was Reliable Man did have a huge day, but it could have been unbelievable. I think that R M is the next big thing BECAUSE they can perform in Australia which so many of ours can't. That may have been the case but Sully would still have had to get past Ace High , that didn't look like it was an easy thing to do on Saturday , a very impressive run from the son of High Chap. What a day High Chap had quinella in the Edward Manifold as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasrullah 180 Report post Posted October 9, 2017 Ace High was fortunate enough to have Sunday Silence as his second dam. Looks like breeding a horse to go past 2000m has been difficult for High Chaparral at stud in Australia compared to when he was at stud in NZ. Name the Aussie bred ones that got past 2000m? Those Aussie's mares have too much speed.Most Aussie's bred horses run out of oxygen past 1800m. New Zealand should focus on classic horse/stayers. A good majority of our broodmare band suit this. Black Kirrama 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huey 2,037 Report post Posted October 9, 2017 It's pity these clashes always have to take place in the NH. If it was to even happen. https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/oct/09/enable-reamins-training-frankie-dettori-horse-racing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...