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There's an old saying Hesi. Be careful what you wish for. The word clusterf**k has been quite prevalent today and really sums up the three headed monstrosity that looks likely to be the result of Winnie The Pooh dallying with the Left.

Prediction from me if that happens will be another election within 12 months and there will be blood on the floor with a strange combination of red, black and green hues.

I almost want him to go left just to watch the carnage.

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Some facts:

I voted Labour 2 ticks.

I'm in Te Tai Tonga electorate where Labour was 6500+ ahead on the Party Vote.

I cannot see the Greens working with National.....personally I think Winston will work with National or though he's annoyed about Northland.

Christchurch Central had a huge increase in enrolments, whether that helped in result I don't know.

Was saddened that Te Ururoa Flavell lost his seat.....met him earlier this year at Waitangi Celebrations and he's a hell of a nice guy, but being a nice guy dosen't always help in politics.

 

Craig.

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As far as the Nats/Greens, are people forgetting the Labour/Greens Memorandum of Understanding, that states

"The 2 parties will agree to work co-operatively in order to change the Government at the 2017 election"

 

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23 minutes ago, hesi said:

As far as the Nats/Greens, are people forgetting the Labour/Greens Memorandum of Understanding, that states

"The 2 parties will agree to work co-operatively in order to change the Government at the 2017 election"

 

That thing was dead in the water once Jacinda took over. She was very careful to say they might get the courtesy of the first call but that's as far as it goes.

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1 hour ago, hesi said:

Just a bit of balance to keep the right wing rednecks on the straight and narrow

NZ First sources point to Labour

A number of New Zealand First insiders appear to be talking to journalists at the moment, and they are all emphasising that Peters is more likely to go with Labour. The most interesting example is MP Richard Prosser who has failed to make it back in on the party list. He makes a similar argument to Clifton, above, saying that Peters is determined to govern in a way that reflects what the party sees as a "mood for change", which National is unlikely to be able to deliver: "The difficulty is that they've had three terms, looking at a fourth, they are now quite deeply entrenched in their ways. How much of a directional shift could you ween out of them?" - see Henry Cooke's Outgoing NZ First MP Richard Prosser says Winston Peters will go left.

Prosser added: "My gut feeling says he will probably go left if he can". See also more revealing comments in Nicholas Jones' Outgoing MP criticises Winston Peters: He has always been Machiavellian.

Tracy Watkins also reports the views of a New Zealand First insider. She says: "people should not assume a deal with National just because it was the largest party on the night, says a former NZ First MP. There has been a lot of speculation about Peters ruling out any deal with the Greens, but people should not assume that either" - see: Bill and Jacinda on call waiting.

NZ First people are also talking to Politik's Richard Harman: "NZ First sources say that Leader Winston Peters remains convinced National Party politicians leaked details of his superannuation payments and orchestrated a campaign to drive him out of politics which resulted in him losing his seat. As a consequence, POLITIK understands NZ First will not take part in any Government formation negotiations involving Finance Minister and National Campaign Manager, Steven Joyce" - see: English faces uphill battle.

Similarly, Branko Marcetic reports today that "One former NZ First MP who served in the unstable coalition [of 1996] told me Peters will probably choose Labour this time around" - see: What will Winston do? The lessons of '96 tell us he might go with Ardern. According to the source "he's more likely, with a young, inexperienced leader such as Jacinda, to have greater influence there as opposed to going with his old buddies who shafted him last time around."

The same article gave further reason to suggest the party is more in tune with Labour than National: "Among the party's rank-and-file, there is a visceral dislike for and mistrust of the party of John Key and Bill English. A number of his party's policies, such as writing off student loans for graduates who remain in New Zealand a certain number of years, would be non-starters under a National government. There's also the fact that, as with previous elections, Peters has spent this year savaging the 'neoliberal experiment' of 1984, the foremost proponents of which today are National. And at this year's New Zealand First party conference, he used his speech to rail about how National's policies had left the poor and middle class behind, and proceeded to personally insult virtually every National MP in Cabinet by name."

Finally, for a lighter view of Winston Peters' kingmaker role, see my blog post ofCartoons and images about negotiating the new government.

Being a bitter and twisted old man, you might be right. "Fuck the Country.....I'll just do whatever is necessary to get Utu...."

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12 hours ago, hesi said:

 

He has always been a champion of the less fortunate(SuperGold card),

 

 

That should make him my man Hesi because I have the Super Gold Card and I have become "less fortunate" since getting involved with racing! That smug grin reveals a deep-seated contempt for us all however and I hope not too many got suckered by the "synthetic track" promise.

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12 minutes ago, chevy86 said:

That should make him my man Hesi because I have the Super Gold Card and I have become "less fortunate" since getting involved with racing! That smug grin reveals a deep-seated contempt for us all however and I hope not too many got suckered by the "synthetic track" promise.

Fast women, slow horses?

The Labour policy on Racing is not that bad, have a read some time.  They have obviously put a bit of work into it, as they understand the core issues affecting racing

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1 hour ago, hesi said:

Fast women, slow horses?

The Labour policy on Racing is not that bad, have a read some time.  They have obviously put a bit of work into it, as they understand the core issues affecting racing

Unfortunately Hesi, racing can't survive when the country is in recession due to Labour's inept front bench. Jacinda needs 3 more years to line up her team, they are a terrible rabble who have proven they are not ready to run a country yet by the total lack of preparedness for this election with policy.

Though knowing labour they will have gone through 2 more leaders before the next election.

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1 hour ago, barryb said:

Unfortunately Hesi, racing can't survive when the country is in recession due to Labour's inept front bench. Jacinda needs 3 more years to line up her team, they are a terrible rabble who have proven they are not ready to run a country yet by the total lack of preparedness for this election with policy.

Though knowing labour they will have gone through 2 more leaders before the next election.

That would be a very convenient way out for the myriad of racing leaders who have come and gone and done nothing.

Labour got in and stuffed Racing...........nothing to do with us:)

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6 hours ago, hesi said:

The Labour policy on Racing is not that bad, have a read some time.  They have obviously put a bit of work into it, as they understand the core issues affecting racing

Are you serious Hesi? They seem to not understand the difference between the racing and breeding industries for starters.

The racing industry generated more than $167 million in export sales of thoroughbred and standard bred horses.
Though some on here will like this.
Uphold the position of the New Zealand Racing Board to hold the exclusive rights to racing and sports betting in New Zealand, and for the net proceeds to be returned to sustain New Zealand racing

Does that mean they will oppose the current Bill which changes the direction of net proceeds to racing AND sports?

Right up there with their shady smoke and mirrors tax policy for mine.

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Everyones pissed off with everyone - lol - Winston against National about Northland, Green against Labour taking all their seats, National for the earthquake which is where they lost all their seats, and so it goes on.     Whatever happens looking particularly likely that the next government wont last the full three years.     

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Read this, then put your hand on your heart and say NZF with go with the Nats.

Peter's philosophy, in the main, meshes in nicely with Ardern's, game over, I think

'Trying to con the public': What Winston Peters really thinks of National 

26 Sep, 2017 7:11am
 

Video footage has emerged of Winston Peters making a scathing attack on Bill English and a number of other MPs - saying they have created an unstable government that has exacerbated poverty.

For the third time in 21 years, the New Zealand First Party leader is the kingmaker - the man who will choose our next Prime Minister.

National securing 46 per cent of the vote, 58 seats, has it fall three seats short of being able to form a majority government, and three days on from election night Peters is yet to make a call on his preferred coalition partner.

But by his comments at a New Zealand First convention in July it seems Peters had little regard for the previous National-led Government.

 

"This Government reeks of instability from the very top all the way down to Todd Barclay. The poor have been bypassed and the middle-class have been left behind."

Former Southland MP Barclay allegedly made clandestine recordings of a staff member he suspected was critical of him. The revelations led to him announcing he would not stand for re-election.

Peters went on in his speech to call the National Government "Robin Hood" in reverse - taking off the poor to give to the rich, many of whom are foreigners.

"They want to know why as working men and women they are so damn poor, and why so many 'shiny bums' in Wellington are not doing anything to help them."

He also called out a number of National MPs by name, for being untrustworthy, and said English was "brazenly trying to con the public".

"Bill English goes around boasting that people want to come to New Zealand because we are a growing economy. Much of the world is a hell hole. Talk about post-truth politics."

He questioned when New Zealanders last felt they could actually trust a National MP.

"Where trust is unreserved and you are glad you know that person.

"Tell me, did you ever feel that way about John Key, Bill English, 'Mr Fixit' Steven Joyce or Judith Collins, or Paula Bennett or Nick Smith or Simon Bridges?

"Trust has to be earned."

Peters' criticism covered many of the National Government's people and policies and even made comparisons between it and the Titanic.

"Political stability will be what the National Party tries to argue in this election that they represent. Well, the world's most stable, unsinkable ship was the Titanic, until it sank. "

He questioned the stability of Nick Smith's housing policy, pointing out what he saw as the instability of people's freedom to be secure in our homes, businesses and on our streets.

Peters said the last Government had left police "short-handed everywhere", a society where he said people had to prove they were suicidal before being given access to the "little services" available for those with mental health issues.

"What is stable about an economy when over 130,000 can't even get one hour's work, when 92,000 young people aren't in education, training or employment? Where another 100,000 are seeking more work hours?"

He said there was also nothing stable about an economy that had the most "volatile" currency in the "whole wide world".

Peters went on to say an economy where imports exceeded exports, manufacturing was on the decline and home ownership was at its lowest point in 63 years - down by 38 per cent when it came to Maori home ownership - was the very opposite of stability.

The NZ First Party leader said there was also rampant instability in a health system where GPs worked through their lunch breaks and an education system that saw kids packed into "libraries, corridors or worse" for their lessons and more students leaving with debt and no job.

In his speech Peters said it was time for a "political upset".

"They [New Zealanders] want someone not afraid to speak out and say the things that need to be said and do the things that need to be done. They want someone to keep other parties honest, who actually cares about New Zealand."

The party leader said there had been too many governments of late that "haven't been straight with Kiwis" and too many parties that were "simply out of touch".

Only time will tell just who Peters thinks would be best placed to drive this "political upset" to achieve what he thinks the country needs.

National, Labour and the Greens are all spending the week preparing for what could be gruelling coalition negotiations with New Zealand First - and if Peters stands by these comments, it could seem as if National is on the back foot.

On the basis of policies National already seems to have less in common with NZ First's preferred policies. Only three seem to align, compared to Labour's nine.

The priority afforded to each policy could also be more indicative of which way NZ First could lean as opposed to numbers alone.

 

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2 hours ago, crustyngrizzly said:

IMO nobody shoud negotiate with Peters.They should tell him what they are offering and if he doesn't like it,shut the book and carry on.

It is a blight on the nz political system that one party with so few supporters can hold NZ to ransom.

Well that's what the moronic public voted for mmp

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Very happy that I will now be getting my $1000 per annum tax cut. I intend to donate $2. to Heart Foundation; $2 to Cancer Society; $2 to Youthline and spend the remaining $994 on a new refrigerator. We don't really need one, but I thought a silver one would look nice in the kitchen.

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1 hour ago, Uriah Heap said:

Very happy that I will now be getting my $1000 per annum tax cut. I intend to donate $2. to Heart Foundation; $2 to Cancer Society; $2 to Youthline and spend the remaining $994 on a new refrigerator. We don't really need one, but I thought a silver one would look nice in the kitchen.

https://www.budget.govt.nz/budget/2017/family-incomes-calculator/index.htm

 

See if you can squeeze any more out using this.

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4 hours ago, crustyngrizzly said:

IMO nobody shoud negotiate with Peters.They should tell him what they are offering and if he doesn't like it,shut the book and carry on.

It is a blight on the nz political system that one party with so few supporters can hold NZ to ransom.

I hope English has a Plan B ( maybe should be Plan A ) for the unthinkable conversation with the Greens. Plenty of cultural and philosophical differences there which would make an agreement difficult, but not impossible, but the Greens might just overlook some of those things to get into power, where they might get things done. They sure as hell won't in limbo for another three years.

Winston the kingmaker....he might find himself blindsided here if they play it smart....;)

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1 minute ago, Ohokaman said:

I hope English has a Plan B ( maybe should be Plan A ) for the unthinkable conversation with the Greens. Plenty of cultural and philosophical differences there which would make an agreement difficult, but not impossible, but the Greens might just overlook some of those things to get into power, where they might get things done. They sure as hell won't in limbo for another three years.

Winston the kingmaker....he might find himself blindsided here if they play it smart....;).

 

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If the Greens went with the Nats, they would be signing their own death warrant.

They would seriously piss off Labour, and seriously piss off their grassroots membership.

Nats/Greens, sounds good if you say it quickly, but that's about it:rolleyes:

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6 hours ago, Flagship uberalles said:

Well that's what the moronic public voted for mmp

Yes they did, after a  major coercion bombardment by the media. Its a dog by any description, and anyone with half a brain can recognize it.

We don't need change for the sake of change, and no one with such a lack of mandate should be in such a position as Winston.

One reason I am apolitical. Its a joke ,and has been hijacked by big business, and hidden agendas.

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Time will tell. You appear to have double standards ohokaman.    You've highlighted the steps National took to seek revenge on Winston, without you offering any criticism then in the next statement suggest Winston would be " bitter and twisted ..." if  he sought revenge.      

Personally I am happy with the way things turned out. I've always got the impression Winston prefers the labour coalition, its just the results as they currently are have complicated things.  Would you rather work with a team who respects you,or one in which many members can't stand you?  As a Winston supporter I prefer labour,but don't mind either way,. The problem I see for him if he goes with national will be he will lose some of his support base.

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