100 1 1,386 Report post Posted September 23, 2017 5 minutes ago, puha said: Our environment is to diverse to have a rule as such . West coast and East are completely different. I believe irrigation should only occur to prevent grass from burning off. I think only allowing Jan and Feb would prevent that on both east and west coast.....never seen burn off before Jan. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
100 1 1,386 Report post Posted September 23, 2017 1 minute ago, hesi said: You'd have to say the dubious man made intervention cost Kawi the race Man made intervention as usual downgraded NZ racing. Whenever horses race away from the rail racing is downgraded.....turnover is reduced. Huey, We're Doomed and Insider 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
100 1 1,386 Report post Posted September 23, 2017 I think another theory that is misplaced is trainers worrying about horses breaking down on too firm a surface. I believe it is uneven surfaces that causes the problem.....they like galloping on a firm beach .....but that has a perfect surface hence no problem. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby3051 10,695 Report post Posted September 23, 2017 1 hour ago, hesi said: You'd have to say the dubious man made intervention cost Kawi the race BS he had every chance the winner was too good... make all the excuses or conspiracy theories you want best horse on the day won........like they say thats racing. THE TORCH 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whyisit 227 Report post Posted September 23, 2017 9 hours ago, Berri said: Rubbish. You must be a newbie to the industry. The ground already had enough moisture in it to not make it slippery with last nights rain. A track doesn't go from a 4 then to a 6 and then a 9 with the small amount of rain unless some imbecile has put too much water on board. Problem still is the soil/grass/ soil management issue What I am saying is that if there had not been any irrigation up to the night before and it rained as it did it would have a slippery track on the day Berri . So did they irrigate to make it a soft or easy track for the horses sake or did they irrigate to make it safe for the jockeys and horses sake. They controlled the situation well and the racing went ahead without any incident involving the safety of horse and rider .Looking at times of the last 600m running 36s and some horses travelling wide on the bend and doing that suggests that it was not a 9 on the day .Given that a 9 on the day at HB is and equivalent to a 6 or 7 anywhere else ie if you have been around long enough in this game there is a big difference between a summertime heavy 10 and a wintertime heavy 10 Berri .The same applies to HB as a trainer you would look at going to HB with horses that like the firmer ground in the wintertime The climate at HB can have a track bake hard in a week and I was shown a photo of of the track which had been taken showing cracks in the surface up to and including Raceday On the morning the pentrometer suggested a 8 reading and from what I have been told the stipes made it a 9. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
porky 900 Report post Posted September 23, 2017 we stood by the rail at the 100 metre mark, very surprised on arrival at the nice firmish surface, good dig with the heel as to take a conversion, small indent... grass out on the course was long...could have grazed it, good 5/6 inches. Took the water well in my opinion and was good for racing...certainly no shin soreness issues. Did occour to me though, with Kawi,s stats...if it was up to beating Gingernuts over the distance...too much give under foot, so top run considering. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby3051 10,695 Report post Posted September 23, 2017 23 minutes ago, hesi said: Gotta keep flying that Te Akau flag Stop talking shit hesi... the best horse won on the day... now get lost....i don't have any ties to anyone...just appreciate when a horse puts up a good performance no matter who owns it. Black Kirrama 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby3051 10,695 Report post Posted September 23, 2017 25 minutes ago, hesi said: You have to acknowledge though, that the conditions, a slow 9, favoured GNuts, over Kawi, a horse that is known to dislike soft tracks No the winner cleaned him up Kawi came to win the race and GN ran past him...anyway Kawi may be a little past his best now too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scarecrow71 2 Report post Posted September 23, 2017 Damn straight. I wasn't convinced gingernuts was the new up n comer but he put that beyond doubt yesterday. Beat kawi hands down. The king is dead long live the king Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insider 3,876 Report post Posted September 23, 2017 Great to see last years two best three year olds, Bonnaval and Gingernuts come out on top as four year olds, so early in the season. rdytdy, Memphis2 and THE TORCH 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... 226 Report post Posted September 23, 2017 1 hour ago, Insider said: Great to see last years two best three year olds, Bonnaval and Gingernuts come out on top as four year olds, so early in the season. Great point, both already WFA winning milers when they are both better over more ground. Insider 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puha 2,177 Report post Posted September 24, 2017 Apart from the posters here no one is complaining and the majority agree with the steps the club took . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... 226 Report post Posted September 24, 2017 Ask Roydon Bergerson how he feels, he scratched his and took the fine to go with it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puha 2,177 Report post Posted September 24, 2017 29 minutes ago, BruceL said: Ask Roydon Bergerson how he feels, he scratched his and took the fine to go with it! Track didn't downgrade from what it was at 7.00am so don't get your point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
.... 226 Report post Posted September 24, 2017 He wasnt happy with the false track thats why he took it upon himself to scratch the horse without the stewards permission. He wasnt happy with the track , thats all i was saying. If anyone thinks that track played well I would question their judgement. All after 12mls of rain over 2 days, they were heavy handed on the irrigation, irrigation not the problem just the excessive amounts. chevy86 and Lloyd Vivian 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Harrop 226 Report post Posted September 25, 2017 My question is why were they aiming for a Dead 4 in the first place (hence the saturation irrigation earlier in the week)? What's wrong with a Good 3? Much better racing and it probably would have only been dead on the day after the rain. Lloyd Vivian and Insider 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puha 2,177 Report post Posted September 25, 2017 4 minutes ago, Peter Harrop said: My question is why were they aiming for a Dead 4 in the first place (hence the saturation irrigation earlier in the week)? What's wrong with a Good 3? Much better racing and it probably would have only been dead on the day after the rain. Isn't the mandate /recommendation to have a track at a dead4 at acceptance time ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Harrop 226 Report post Posted September 25, 2017 On 9/24/2017 at 8:26 AM, Whyisit said: What I am saying is that if there had not been any irrigation up to the night before and it rained as it did it would have a slippery track on the day Berri . This argument doesn't hold water (so to speak). Does no one remember a couple of years back when one of the Group 1's at Hastings was abandoned due to over-irrigation making the track slippery? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insider 3,876 Report post Posted September 25, 2017 3 minutes ago, puha said: Isn't the mandate /recommendation to have a track at a dead4 at acceptance time ? Fook the mandate/recommendation. It's stupid and prone to human malfunction! Peter Harrop and Lloyd Vivian 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whyisit 227 Report post Posted September 25, 2017 6 minutes ago, Peter Harrop said: This argument doesn't hold water (so to speak). Does no one remember a couple of years back when one of the Group 1's at Hastings was abandoned due to over-irrigation making the track slippery? Peter I think they learnt from that experience But was it over irrigated on Saturday they did race successfully Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
puha 2,177 Report post Posted September 25, 2017 34 minutes ago, Peter Harrop said: This argument doesn't hold water (so to speak). Does no one remember a couple of years back when one of the Group 1's at Hastings was abandoned due to over-irrigation making the track slippery? Didn't they irrigate too late last time ? Where as this week they irrgated early and only till Tuesday to a dead 4 . Your arguement doesn't hold water Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chelseacol 2,488 Report post Posted September 25, 2017 1 hour ago, puha said: Didn't they irrigate too late last time ? Where as this week they irrgated early and only till Tuesday to a dead 4 . Your arguement doesn't hold water they put 14mm on in one go - craziness 4 days out .... and Lloyd Vivian 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 2Admin2 Report post Posted September 25, 2017 8 hours ago, chelseacol said: they put 14mm on in one go - craziness 4 days out They should have maximised field capacity two weeks out. Leaving it late meant that they had to irrigate heavily otherwise the water would not have got in. Once again it highlights a soil structure problem. The track was crap in the end. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berri 2,131 Report post Posted September 25, 2017 I personally think that the soil structure is the answer to the stuff up but the systems to whether or not irrigation should take place should be data driven. We have 9 weather stations within 14kms of the Hastings racetrack. I've looked at the data pre and post the meeting. Absolutely no way would I have watered before the meeting. That brief wet bomb was enough to ensure slipiness of the track didn't occur if the right grasses and length of grass was sorted. These forecasts of ours are 93 percent accurate 8 days out. Each race track should have its own standardised weather station. They should also have a series of soil probes around the track. The data will determine what should be done. This is seriously simple stuff if you know how ...., Grego and La Zip 3 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Whyisit 227 Report post Posted September 25, 2017 1 hour ago, Berri said: I personally think that the soil structure is the answer to the stuff up but the systems to whether or not irrigation should take place should be data driven. We have 9 weather stations within 14kms of the Hastings racetrack. I've looked at the data pre and post the meeting. Absolutely no way would I have watered before the meeting. That brief wet bomb was enough to ensure slipiness of the track didn't occur if the right grasses and length of grass was sorted. These forecasts of ours are 93 percent accurate 8 days out. Each race track should have its own standardised weather station. They should also have a series of soil probes around the track. The data will determine what should be done. This is seriously simple stuff if you know how Tell me Berri do you have 500 kg horses galloping at full speed at any of your data points to qualify your assumptions. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...