Guest Report post Posted October 2, 2017 Elinor, I never said that the Stipes brought the whip rule in, but HRNZ!!!! Jack, superior Horsemen are always on top,obviously, just like superior punters and that is why the TAB don't treat all punters equally! just as all Horsemen are not treated equally. There was a drive at Motukarara yesterday that was an absolute shocker but no suspension. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fartoomuch 1,376 Report post Posted October 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Kotare_Hunter said: How about a TAB employee? Nah but keep trying. As you are an intelligent poster it should not take you long if you persevere Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sergio 9 Report post Posted October 2, 2017 I have tried not to get reinvolved but the smart arsed sarcastic attitude of mr Newmarket has got the better of me I started this post and I never implied that if you break a rule you should not get punished but rather the level of crime should fit the crime mr Newmarket you need to get a life and understand that it is not easy tor a young battler to make living out of this game and they are only trying to improve and get more opportunities you don t get them by running second or third dexter and ricky only stick to the rules because desperation is not a part of their livelihood but watch if they are neck and neck last 400m of nz cup and count the number of strikes then for the very last time let the level of crime fit the crime and I stand by my previous comment you are a wanker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil 333 Report post Posted October 2, 2017 1 hour ago, sergio said: I have tried not to get reinvolved but the smart arsed sarcastic attitude of mr Newmarket has got the better of me I started this post and I never implied that if you break a rule you should not get punished but rather the level of crime should fit the crime mr Newmarket you need to get a life and understand that it is not easy tor a young battler to make living out of this game and they are only trying to improve and get more opportunities you don t get them by running second or third dexter and ricky only stick to the rules because desperation is not a part of their livelihood but watch if they are neck and neck last 400m of nz cup and count the number of strikes then for the very last time let the level of crime fit the crime and I stand by my previous comment you are a wanker Well done Sergio. It takes considerable skill and effort to make Brodie sound relatively sane and reasonable on this topic, but you've managed it --- congratulations! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede 67 Report post Posted October 2, 2017 I've said it before and I'll say it again -- if (and it is a big IF) harness racing is to have a long-term future, it will not involve whipping horses. The restrictions on whipping are simply a step in that direction. Racing is slowly dying because young people are not engaging. We'll never win them back if we continue to whip horses. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
what a post 811 Report post Posted October 2, 2017 2 hours ago, sergio said: I have tried not to get reinvolved but the smart arsed sarcastic attitude of mr Newmarket has got the better of me I started this post and I never implied that if you break a rule you should not get punished but rather the level of crime should fit the crime mr Newmarket you need to get a life and understand that it is not easy tor a young battler to make living out of this game and they are only trying to improve and get more opportunities you don t get them by running second or third dexter and ricky only stick to the rules because desperation is not a part of their livelihood but watch if they are neck and neck last 400m of nz cup and count the number of strikes then for the very last time let the level of crime fit the crime and I stand by my previous comment you are a wanker Personally I think you have made your point well,, apart from the references to newmarket. History shows that even the top drivers have been fined for excessive use of the whip in the big races. For example In recent nz cups Lance justice ,k manning,ricky may, not sure about dexter dunn. Personally I think it would be better to have no whip,but I don't think whip use is much of a factor in turning people off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise 554 Report post Posted October 2, 2017 46 minutes ago, Swede said: I've said it before and I'll say it again -- if (and it is a big IF) harness racing is to have a long-term future, it will not involve whipping horses. The restrictions on whipping are simply a step in that direction. Racing is slowly dying because young people are not engaging. We'll never win them back if we continue to whip horses. In my opinion, out of the 3 codes, Harness Racing is the safest. I hope not... but gallops, will be in the firing line first because of the Jumps racing. I used to enjoy it as a youngster but find it horrific to watch when I accidentally turn on trackside and catch a jumps race. It is a death waiting to happen at every turn on those heavy tracks. The sight of horses out on their feet several jumps from home and unable to complete the journey but still asked by some jockeys to keep going is a sickening sight, let alone the falls. A sight no parent or young person would want to see if they were watching on TV or at the track. but the greyhounds, one day a trainer will be conclusively caught using live lures and it will be under the microscope as much as NSW was and will struggle to stay afloat. As for Harness, it seems to have much fewer accidents these days. The skill level of the driving seems higher than the past. It is rare for a horse to put down on course. On the whole, they deal with objectionable offences well eg metalled lined whip and have some very responsible people involved eg Jess Smith and the rehoming programme.Once the whip goes, and it eventually will (sorry Brodie), I think Harness will thrive. Just my thoughts. I really hope all codes can prosper. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Report post Posted October 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Swede said: I've said it before and I'll say it again -- if (and it is a big IF) harness racing is to have a long-term future, it will not involve whipping horses. The restrictions on whipping are simply a step in that direction. Racing is slowly dying because young people are not engaging. We'll never win them back if we continue to whip horses. Seriously, the young ones don't give a toss whether the horses get hit or not. On Cup Day what they want is to get pissed and chat the opposite sex up! The ones that go out on Cup Day don't come out again till the following years Cup, which is the problem the industry has! There was absolutely nothing wrong with the excessive whip rule that we had previously, far fairer! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fartoomuch 1,376 Report post Posted October 2, 2017 12 hours ago, sergio said: I have tried not to get reinvolved but the smart arsed sarcastic attitude of mr Newmarket has got the better of me I started this post and I never implied that if you break a rule you should not get punished but rather the level of crime should fit the crime mr Newmarket you need to get a life and understand that it is not easy tor a young battler to make living out of this game and they are only trying to improve and get more opportunities you don t get them by running second or third dexter and ricky only stick to the rules because desperation is not a part of their livelihood but watch if they are neck and neck last 400m of nz cup and count the number of strikes then for the very last time let the level of crime fit the crime and I stand by my previous comment you are a wanker You have done in earlier posts but are getting better at grasping what the real issue is here. Congrats. As for the battlers the examples i posted earlier from Motu whatever would indicate that despite some intense whipping the horses did not improve and is reflected in their places on the day. Close and Butt deservedly got time for breaking the whip rule and for what Absolutley nothing but days or nights on the sidelines. lets see if they are quick learners Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede 67 Report post Posted October 3, 2017 Ah Brodie . . . the young ones do care. They care a lot more than you do. Fartoomuch 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
what a post 811 Report post Posted October 3, 2017 3 hours ago, Swede said: Ah Brodie . . . the young ones do care. They care a lot more than you do. Do you think they are all fans of PETA. That group currently is mounting a worldwide campaign against wool products as they think its cruel to shear sheep. Have spoken to a couple of farmers in the last couple of days who have said currently the cost of shearing their sheep is greater than what they get for it when sold. One had 16 sheep,the other 9000. The one with the 9000 told me how her family had shorn them all themselves just so as to get some return. I heard an expert on the radio today say wool prices are expected to rise 6% this year. 6% of bugger all is not much. The same expert was not as optimistic as some commentators and was predicting only about $93 for a 17 kg lamb. Hell I got more when I had a couple of hundred sheep about 20 years ago,thats if the memory is correct. Hell I must have been a good part time farmer,either that or things are tough on the farms that don't soak themselves in Canterbury water.. Actually therein lies a part of the reason why racing is not as strong in rural areas as it once was. So many of the big farms are owned overseas with many other farms owned by corporate's. Obviously its the same where she came from (the wairarapa) as it is in the south island.Throw in the cow cockies with their multitude of filipino workers and you are left with a far smaller pool of traditional farmers with horses and racing as an interest. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Report post Posted October 3, 2017 4 hours ago, Swede said: Ah Brodie . . . the young ones do care. They care a lot more than you do. Cobblers Swede. The young only care about what is in it for them nowadays, rather than animals! They live week to week financially and personally apart from one or two oldies on here, have ever have anyone express any concern for racehorses being hit! I have not read anything from anyone in NZ about cruelty to harness horses from the whip and yet HRNZ brings in the stupid rule! Dont beleive the whip will be banned in Oz and wouldn't put a cent on it being banned in NZ anytime. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise 554 Report post Posted October 3, 2017 21 hours ago, Brodie said: Seriously, the young ones don't give a toss whether the horses get hit or not. Probably right, in a way. The whip is not a big issue with youngsters compared to the 2 main issues SAFE has with racing but I still applaud HRNZ for taking the stand they are over the whip. I just wish the drivers would wise up and stop getting themselves fined. Old habits die hard I know, but if you are getting hit in the pocket you would think you would learn quicker. As for SAFE's racing targets, youngsters would have no stomach for either. I would be worried if I was in the jumps game or greyhounds. One misstep by anyone in those areas and they will be in the firing line big time because it will make the mainstream news and gain the momentum it doesn't have at this stage. I love racing but agree with them over the jumps racing - its sickening. http://safe.org.nz/take-action Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
what a post 811 Report post Posted October 3, 2017 Yes happy, wonder what will come to light in the current greyhound investigation. That's the one that seems to have insiders concerned. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Report post Posted October 3, 2017 Happy, Sorry but did I miss the bit from SAFE about harness horses being hit is a concern to them????? Didnt see it included! That's right, they stated that they didn't have it on their agenda at all!! ! ! Brilliant, HRNZ brought the rule in for no other reason than to collect fines and nothing at all to do with animal cruelty. I suppose the ones that think that the rule is great don't eat PORK or chicken then! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Sunrise 554 Report post Posted October 3, 2017 10 hours ago, Brodie said: Sorry but did I miss the bit from SAFE about harness horses being hit is a concern to them????? Didnt see it included! I said you are probably right in my post that youngsters don't care about the whip. The whip is not on the list. You are correct. As I said before, I think harness is lucky enough to not be on the hit list of SAFE. Fortunately out of the limelight behind jumps racing and the greyhounds. Just because it is not on the list, doesn't mean HRNZ doesn't have to be proactive. I don't need to see horses being flogged all the way down the straight. As for betting, which is your major concern, I am quite happy to bet with the current rule. It is a good compromise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kotare_Hunter 748 Report post Posted October 3, 2017 16 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said: I said you are probably right in my post that youngsters don't care about the whip. The whip is not on the list. You are correct. As I said before, I think harness is lucky enough to not be on the hit list of SAFE. Fortunately out of the limelight behind jumps racing and the greyhounds. Just because it is not on the list, doesn't mean HRNZ doesn't have to be proactive. I don't need to see horses being flogged all the way down the straight. As for betting, which is your major concern, I am quite happy to bet with the current rule. It is a good compromise. Staying off the list a pretty good idea. Happy Sunrise 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Report post Posted October 3, 2017 Staying off the list is a good idea. Of course it is, but the point is that Animal Rights had no problem with the way the whip was being used previously and so they shouldn't have. the previous rule was working so if not broken why Chu change for the worse? Hrnz semi follewed Oz and now Oz have backtracked and we have a stupid rule in place Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljay 1,719 Report post Posted October 4, 2017 On 10/2/2017 at 9:45 AM, eljay said: What is the worst - hitting a horse one or two strikes too many or pulling back to the rear and staying there. No doubt activists will be on one side and punters on the other. I really feel there should be a graduated scale of punishment. 1 to 3 strikes over first offence just a warning. 4 to 8, 8-12, 13 & over, second offence perhaps up one "offence band" & suspensions doubled etc. Should be easy to be able to work out a graduated scale. Perhaps however this would be too hard for the JCA to adjudicate on after the Reekie fiasco I hear graduated penalties for whipping coming in around Nov 1st - interesting see what they bring in and whether they will cost the drivers more or less . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede 67 Report post Posted October 8, 2017 (edited) On 10/3/2017 at 8:24 PM, Brodie said: Cobblers Swede. The young only care about what is in it for them nowadays, rather than animals! They live week to week financially and personally apart from one or two oldies on here, have ever have anyone express any concern for racehorses being hit! I have not read anything from anyone in NZ about cruelty to harness horses from the whip and yet HRNZ brings in the stupid rule! Dont beleive the whip will be banned in Oz and wouldn't put a cent on it being banned in NZ anytime. Well Brodie, the unenlightened one, how do you think horse racing is to pull itself out of its terminal decline? What will the relevance of harness racing be in the future? I'm afraid you reflect the old-fashioned sort of attitude and complacency that got it where it is today. I can tell you my young adult children are not impressed that I'm interesting in a sport that involves whipping animals. Edited October 8, 2017 by Swede Fartoomuch 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Report post Posted October 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Swede said: Well Brodie, the unenlightened one, how do you think horse racing is to pull itself out of its terminal decline? What will the relevance of harness racing be in the future? I'm afraid you reflect the old-fashioned sort of attitude and complacency that got it where it is today. I can tell you my young adult children are not impressed that I'm interesting in a sport that involves whipping animals. Swede, I am well aware Harness is in decline, but has nothing at all to do with the use of the whip excessively. So you are saying that your young adult children will start going to the trots with you and punt if they banned the whip then? I am sure you have got worse habits than following harness racing and are they impressed about that? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim vince 985 Report post Posted October 8, 2017 every form of gambling is declining - poker machines don't use whips- read the atc annual report. just saying. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swede 67 Report post Posted October 8, 2017 Of course the decline has nothing to do with the whip. But winning back the lost generations will not happen with attitudes from the dark ages. Fartoomuch 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fartoomuch 1,376 Report post Posted October 9, 2017 On 10/8/2017 at 11:03 PM, Swede said: Of course the decline has nothing to do with the whip. But winning back the lost generations will not happen with attitudes from the dark ages. Trying to talk sense to Brodie has not proved to be possible in the past on here but good luck anyway. Spikecity 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Report post Posted October 10, 2017 4 hours ago, Newmarket said: Trying to talk sense to Brodie has not proved to be possible in the past on here but good luck anyway. Newmarket, have you only just realised that it is almost impossible to change "The Brodster" opinion when he knows he is correct? Sense is in the eye of the beholder and the odd person on here that disagrees with me does not affect my or many others opinion. I appreciate you and your cohorts have an agenda, but it won't work! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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