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NZRB Publicly Admit They Haven't Got A Clue What's Going On

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News

No speedy solution to Australian betting impasse

  • Fri, 15 Sep 2017
  •  
  • Dennis Ryan

Issues raised by the Australian offshore betting bombshell are unlikely to be resolved any time soon.

Last week the New Zealand Racing Board learnt that the Australian Parliament had passed legislation banning anyone based in Australia from betting on racing or sports through offshore agencies. It is believed the Interactive Gambling Amendment Act, which was first tabled in Canberra late last year, was aimed at rogue betting platforms in Asia and elsewhere, but perhaps inadvertently the New Zealand TAB was caught up in the same net.

The NZRB, which incorporates our TAB, became aware of the legislation last week and acknowledging that it would be breaking the law, one of its first moves was to notify its Australian-based account holders – said to number around 800 – that they had been locked out of their accounts and any monies therein would be refunded by cheque.

Betting revenues from that source have been estimated in the low seven-figure bracket, while others caught in the net include New Zealanders visiting Australia but now prevented from continuing to bet through their TAB. A suggestion put forward this week by a TAB spokesperson, that a solution would be to place your bets before heading to Australia, is hardly practical.

A small percentage of account-holders provide the majority of the TAB’s revenue – 56 per cent of turnover from 1.5 per cent of customers is the current statistic – which raises concerns that some of that income has been stymied by the legislation. That, however, is understood to not be the case given the sophisticated multi-jurisdiction model of those high-end players who can still access the New Zealand TAB from elsewhere.

Even so, the situation the TAB now finds itself is far from satisfactory, as agreed by NZRB CEO John Allen when he discussed the matter with www.theinformant.co.nz.

“When the Select Committee in Canberra was working through the proposed legislation they wrote to what they deemed relevant organisations, but as far as I’m aware no New Zealand organisation was invited to make a submission,” Allen said.

“We knew Australia was going to clamp down on illegal gambling operators, but the New Zealand TAB certainly wasn’t seen as one of them. What happened was they came up with a solution and the absolutely unintended consequence was that our Australian account holders have been blocked.”

Unfortunately there appears to be no easy way out and whichever way it develops, redress is expected to take time.

“We have yet to make direct contact, the first thing was to deal with our own customers and manage that process,” Allen continued. “The next phase is to understand the options available to us.

“One is to investigate securing our own licence to operate in Australia, but that could be expensive. We also intend talking to our advisers as to how the CER agreement plays in this space, but until we have a game plan to engage with Canberra it’s difficult to track.”

As for the multi-million dollar Fixed Odds Betting platform currently being invested in by the TAB, Allen sees no issues or complications stemming from the Australian legislation.

“Our strategy there has never been built on people betting in New Zealand from Australia, the new FOB platform is aimed at our New Zealand customers. It’s all about growing our account-holder numbers here and providing them with the necessary tools.

“Something that the Australian legislation does highlight is the need for the Race Fields legislation to get over the line,” Allen said. “The focus right now is very much the election, but once we know the make-up of the new Parliament we will be in a position to see the legislation signed off.”

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You cannot keep blaming the NZRB when the code and the trainer's allow this to happen because they're too stupid to anticipate it, too thick to understand it, and too gutless to act to prevent it.

Go and read my postings of the last six years, this cancer started in about 2010/11 and you're now seeing the symptoms of a serious disease affecting this code, a disease called mediocrity brought on by disastrous appointments of a series of pale stale males largely agenda driven and from amateur backgrounds.

 

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39 minutes ago, Midget said:

You cannot keep blaming the NZRB when the code and the trainer's allow this to happen because they're too stupid to anticipate it, too thick to understand it, and too gutless to act to prevent it.

Go and read my postings of the last six years, this cancer started in about 2010/11 and you're now seeing the symptoms of a serious disease affecting this code, a disease called mediocrity brought on by disastrous appointments of a series of pale stale males largely agenda driven and from amateur backgrounds.

 

I disagree.  How many trainers are on $600k a year?  How many trainers are experts in gambling markets and infrastructure?  What's more what actual control can the code and trainers exert on the revenue arm of the industry?  Zilch.  It is apparent that there is another agenda and has been for some time and that agenda is sport not racing focussed.

Even Winston can't turn that around.  If he is Racing Minister then all he will do is pitch up to the old boys trough days and make promises.  Has anyone heard him state his view on the new legislation?  I for once agree with Berri - you may as well lube up drop your tweeds and take the medicine as painlessly as you can.

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1 hour ago, Midget said:

You cannot keep blaming the NZRB when the code and the trainer's allow this to happen because they're too stupid to anticipate it, too thick to understand it, and too gutless to act to prevent it.

Go and read my postings of the last six years, this cancer started in about 2010/11 and you're now seeing the symptoms of a serious disease affecting this code, a disease called mediocrity brought on by disastrous appointments of a series of pale stale males largely agenda driven and from amateur backgrounds.

 

As I mentioned previously, they don't even know where the funding for the industry's prizemoney comes from....oh, that's right.....too busy setting horses for trial wins, so they can flog them....and you wanna know why racing in this country is stuffed......

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2 hours ago, Midget said:

You cannot keep blaming the NZRB when the code and the trainer's allow this to happen because they're too stupid to anticipate it, too thick to understand it, and too gutless to act to prevent it.

Go and read my postings of the last six years, this cancer started in about 2010/11 and you're now seeing the symptoms of a serious disease affecting this code, a disease called mediocrity brought on by disastrous appointments of a series of pale stale males largely agenda driven and from amateur backgrounds.

 

This has nothing to do with trainers and to lesser extent the gallops code. This is clearly an area where the political, legal appointments should have been doing their work.

What did the working group on offshore betting do? Surely the first port of call would have been examining Australian proposed legislation.

This is a damning of the NZRB the government/political appointees and no one else.

Crazy to blame it on the trainers.

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2 hours ago, slam dunk said:

This has nothing to do with trainers and to lesser extent the gallops code. This is clearly an area where the political, legal appointments should have been doing their work.

What did the working group on offshore betting do? Surely the first port of call would have been examining Australian proposed legislation.

This is a damning of the NZRB the government/political appointees and no one else.

Crazy to blame it on the trainers.

Rubbish, the trainers should've stood up and opposed The Racing Act in 2003 and they should've acted to repeal it and emasculate the NZRB on numerous occasions since.

They're the only entity outside of NZTR that can flex their muscles, but like the media they've been bought off.

You're consistent though, if nothing else, you get everything wrong don't you now :) 

How's the medication and the alternate name you're using working out for you ? Have those voices in your head gone quiet yet ? :) 

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It was good of Dennis Ryan to set it all out in a comprehensible manner.

This is a blatant exposition of how bad our NZ Racing Board have become.

They didn't invite us to make submissions?

For God's sake; you don't wait, if you have anything better than a room temperature intelligence quotient; you get straight in.

I want to buy a share in a racehorse.  I cannot put money into an outfit run by the likes of the present NZRB hierarchy.  They are an abject disgrace.  Trainers; call me when you have got rid of those muppets.  But until then, leave me alone.

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13 hours ago, Midget said:

Rubbish, the trainers should've stood up and opposed The Racing Act in 2003 and they should've acted to repeal it and emasculate the NZRB on numerous occasions since.

They're the only entity outside of NZTR that can flex their muscles, but like the media they've been bought off.

You're consistent though, if nothing else, you get everything wrong don't you now :) 

How's the medication and the alternate name you're using working out for you ? Have those voices in your head gone quiet yet ? :) 

Agree with you, and although I've mentioned before, our local track and it's trainers have no idea how their industry is funded, they are all traders, waiting and hoping for the next deal to fund their losses with the 'slow ones' they have gone through to get the 'one'......they haven't a brain between them, bless em, but pain is natures warning, be it physical or financial, they can't or won't heed that warning.

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20 hours ago, Tauhei Notts said:

It was good of Dennis Ryan to set it all out in a comprehensible manner.

This is a blatant exposition of how bad our NZ Racing Board have become.

They didn't invite us to make submissions?

For God's sake; you don't wait, if you have anything better than a room temperature intelligence quotient; you get straight in.

I want to buy a share in a racehorse.  I cannot put money into an outfit run by the likes of the present NZRB hierarchy.  They are an abject disgrace.  Trainers; call me when you have got rid of those muppets.  But until then, leave me alone.

When Dennis asked Allen how this would affect the PaddyPower/OpenBet  platform thing the answer came back "Oh thats only for our NZ customers"

Now I ask you? Has John Allen seen www in the browser.  That means world wide web i.e. if you are going to spend millions on an internet site you do it for a world wide audience.

As for submissions did anyone see any invitation for this platform thing? Did anyone see what was meant by platform? Oh but us mere mortals have to act intelligent and pretend we know what the "platform" is. Now I have had some sort of involvement with racing and IT for fifty years and I haven't a clue what the "platform" is.

I'll say one thing though I know far more than the board members knowledge of the "platform". Simply put its a con.

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Surely the bureaucrats in the NZ High Commission in Canberra must have picked up the risk to NZ interests in the legislation passed in August 2017?  And sent an alert to Foreign Affairs in Wellington, and through them to Internal Affairs and the NZRB?   

Maybe the diplomats turned a wilful blind eye, to spite John Allen for the shambolic restructurings and staff victimisations he pursued for McCully when CE of Foreign Affairs. 

The amendment bill which did the damage was before the Federal Parliament in Canberra for a full year.  It was introduced in August 2016 and assented to on 16 August 2017. 

If the NZ diplomats in Canberra are hopelessly overwhelmed in schmoozing and pocket pissing, Allen might have a clerk in NZRB spend half an hour a week on the internet scanning parliamentary business in Australia and other countries for risks, to avoid being blindsided again.  A clerk paid less than $100K a year, if such exist in NZRB.

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Scotch Thistle mentions "a wilful blind eye".  A very perceptive observation.  Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned or a bureaucrat passed over.

It is comments like that of Scotch Thistle that put my bullsh%t detectors on high alert.  But, then, almost everything that comes out of the NZRB does that.

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How the hell can NZRB justify putting $15mill/year into a FOB platform now catering only for NZ customers?

What planet are these people living on?

Especially when rumour has it the TAB App - budget $1mill,  is now in over-run to the tune $12mill.

How naive could Allen be to think a change in Australian law, with regards to off-shore gambling, would not have possible consequences for NZ?

God help us all!

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19 minutes ago, berzerk said:

How the hell can NZRB justify putting $15mill/year into a FOB platform now catering only for NZ customers?

What planet are these people living on?

Especially when rumour has it the TAB App - budget $1mill,  is now in over-run to the tune $12mill.

How naive could Allen be to think a change in Australian law, with regards to off-shore gambling, would not have possible consequences for NZ?

God help us all!

The TAB App was well over $2m before it was even used by customers and if you remember the first release could only do sports betting!!!!

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If this is true then its a serious allegation.

Did the Offshore Betting Working Group ignore the Australian legislation because it doesn't impact on sports betting as opposed to racing. ???

Certainly it seems that John Allen delegated all issues to the Working Group which explains his surprize.

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While I have been a strong critic of some of the working group findings, I think that comment is grossly unfair SD. Remember the working group reported in October 2015 and this legislation was introduced in November 2016. The working group provided up to date reporting on the review under way from which this legislation emerged. Any lack of followup lies squarely with the NZRB and the legislators in my view.

From the working group report .....

Regulation of Offshore Bookmakers

109 In September 2015, the Australian Federal Government announced the establishment of a Review of
Illegal Offshore Wagering . This Review will inquire into the practice of providing offshore betting
services to customers in Australia under the Interactive Gambling Act 2001. A final report is due to the
Minister for Social Services and the Minister for Communications by 18 December 2015. The focus of
the review is on technological and legislative options that may be available to mitigate the costs of
illegal offshore betting.

.....The Chair and Secretariat also had a teleconference with the Chair and Secretariat
of the Australian Review of Illegal Offshore Wagering Committee.

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Surely with this review clearly flagged in the report they, or whoever they reported to if they disbanded after their report,  should have been monitoring the progress of the review through the Aussie legislature.

Seems to me that the whole landscape of international betting could change and we will end up with a very expensive FOB platform to compete against who????

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1 hour ago, Leggy said:

.....The Chair and Secretariat also had a teleconference with the Chair and Secretariat
of the Australian Review of Illegal Offshore Wagering Committee.

I thought you had a point until I read the last sentence.

This working group knew what was going to happen and couldn't care a hoot following up. Judging by the proposed NZ amendment where they referred to Sports And Recreation NZ which hadn't been in existence for some time no one bothered to update the amendment or keep in touch with developments.

As Patiti has alluded how can anyone have confidence with the FOB platform if thats their method of operating.

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Given that both John Allen and Greg McCarthy were members of the working group that wrote that report, it beggars belief that Allen could now claim that the NZRB only just learned about the legislation this month, then in the next breath say that they didn't think it included the NZTAB. The review itself, the Australian Government response last year and the subsequent bill were all totally clear. It did not add "NZTAB excepted". This all amounts to either gross negligence or out and out lies and the Minister should be investigating.

"The Government will amend the IGA to make it clear that the provision of gambling services to Australians by offshore providers is prohibited, unless they are licensed by a state or territory."
from the Australian government response to the review, April, 2016.
 
 
 

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3 hours ago, slam dunk said:

I thought you had a point until I read the last sentence.

This working group knew what was going to happen and couldn't care a hoot following up. Judging by the proposed NZ amendment where they referred to Sports And Recreation NZ which hadn't been in existence for some time no one bothered to update the amendment or keep in touch with developments.

As Patiti has alluded how can anyone have confidence with the FOB platform if thats their method of operating.

It wasn't the working groups job to follow up. Their work was complete in October 2015 once they released their report. It was surely the NZRB's job to follow up and as you suggest, they must surely have known what was going to happen, especially since they had two representatives on the working group.

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I wonder if Purcell was across it given his lengthy involvement consulting to TABCORP on such matters.

Which raises a more important question surely Purcells replacement Bernie would have been aware of the proposed legislation from his recent high profile involvement with OZ racing.

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7 minutes ago, 2Admin2 said:

I wonder if Purcell was across it given his lengthy involvement consulting to TABCORP on such matters.

Which raises a more important question surely Purcells replacement Bernie would have been aware of the proposed legislation from his recent high profile involvement with OZ racing.

Bernie / Bernard was said to have been shoulder tapped by "played and missed" Jackson and reportedly employed because he had a historical relationship with Tabcorp, and because NZTR, through their not very secret attempt to take back their own IP in conjunction with the major clubs, wanted someone like Bernie / Bernard who could facilitate a deal to sell our product, using Tabcorp, independent of the NZ TAB.

I think you can reasonably presume Bernie / Bernard was all over this, but it doesn't follow that it's his responsibility to do the NZRBs job for them.

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9 minutes ago, Midget said:

Bernie / Bernard was said to have been shoulder tapped by "played and missed" Jackson and reportedly employed because he had a historical relationship with Tabcorp, and because NZTR, through their not very secret attempt to take back their own IP in conjunction with the major clubs, wanted someone like Bernie / Bernard who could facilitate a deal to sell our product, using Tabcorp, independent of the NZ TAB.

I think you can reasonably presume Bernie / Bernard was all over this, but it doesn't follow that it's his responsibility to do the NZRBs job for them.

It may not follow "that it's his responsibility to do the NZRB's job for them" however it is his job as it is NZRB's to communicate with each other.  I guess he hasn't been there long enough to develop a relationship with his only source of income.

PS:  Bernie where are the NZTR News Bulletins?  There hasn't been one posted on the NZTR website since 7 July.

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