Jump to content
RaceCafe NZ's Premier Racing Community
  • Announcements

    • scooby3051

      Winter Super Comp   06/16/2018

      Winter getaway to Fiji....Hotel and airfares.....Comp to start in July.... details soon.....
    • scooby3051

      Interuptions   07/17/2018

      Hi Everyone,           we are in the process of upgrading the site as you know and there may be some short interruptions over the coming weeks while this process happens, I will try to advise before these happen but apologies ahead of time for any inconvenience this may cause. What you all will end up with is a much better place for everyone to enjoy.
Black Kirrama

: DONT Vote Labour : Hickman /Brendon Lindsay wont

Recommended Posts

16 minutes ago, crustyngrizzly said:

What now then for the people who voted early for or against Labour based on this policy.

They are screwed and should demand a revote based on this massive surrender.Early voters have been shafted big time.

They obviously can no longer be trusted .

They could NEVER be trusted Crusty....end of....:rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, crustyngrizzly said:

What now then for the people who voted early for or against Labour based on this policy.

They are screwed and should demand a revote based on this massive surrender.Early voters have been shafted big time.

They obviously can no longer be trusted .

They could NEVER be trusted Crusty.....end of...:rolleyes:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Brown Fox said:

Relax Guys.Jacinda has backed down and said Taxes will not be reviewed till after the 2020 elections.(www.nz Herald)Breaking news

That's at odds with Grant Robertson's media interview this morning then BF:

"The party announced this morning that it would legislate for any changes in its first term, but they would not be implemented until 2021."

In other words they will be actioned this term but not come into effect until 2021.  

Note: The planned tax cuts are still to be scrapped.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, slam dunk said:

Yeeee...awn !!

Usual stereotype reactions what on earth have they got to do with. racing. Only one poster mentioned which party might have the best racing policy.

 

what a stupid post, it has a lot to do with racing.  Infact its huge, and could have major influence. It will impact on ownership, breeding, racing, potentially anyone that owns a horse, and especially if the value of your horse if it appreciates.

Tax also influences the amount of income you receive (im sure you know this) increased taxes imposed on an already struggling industry, will have a negative impact.  Not rocket science

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, rdytdy said:

That's at odds with Grant Robertson's media interview this morning then BF:

"The party announced this morning that it would legislate for any changes in its first term, but they would not be implemented until 2021."

In other words they will be actioned this term but not come into effect until 2021.  

Note: The planned tax cuts are still to be scrapped.   

will be interesting. I think there is a debate this evening between both finance ministers.  I get the impression Midget was right, Robertson is pulling the labour strings, should be clearer  after tonight

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All you guys serious!!!... fck me....what do you really need to feel before you have your draws taken beyond you knees therefore inhibiting any movement from getting bent over?... So what you are supporting is the notion that 5 unknown people are gong to set tax policy that during a term. that will be implemented during the following term? They need to win the next elections to implement? Does that add up? A U turn on one of the most important issues in respect of Taxinda's campaign. How on earth could you vote for that form of instability?

The only reason that Taxinda made such a hoi palloi on voting was that her strategists told her that if she waited then she was at risk of her voters changing their minds. By trying to get her faithful followers to continue to follow early on was to entrap them to vote early to ensure their votes........nothing to do with making sure there was enough time to vote. If you can be that hedgy you can be hedgy about all matters.....

We are all meant to be close to animals, in particular horses, and we sort of pride ourselves in being able to predict and ascertain behaviour. Why is this behaviour not easy to ascertain?

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Varro said:

will be interesting. I think there is a debate this evening between both finance ministers.  I get the impression Midget was right, Robertson is pulling the labour strings, should be clearer  after tonight

Midget is very, very, well connected at the political level.

I'm 100% right and that's why Kelvin Davis has been marginalised and the fat middle aged unattractive homosexual from Wellington ( not judging him on sexual preference, that's his business but it's an undisputed  fact that he's proudly homosexual ) is now being rolled out in a desperate attempt to address the leftist tax related implosion.

This is still a very close contest though IMO, mind you it's got more twists than the Losers Get Laid comp and there's a week to go so who knows where it'll end up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

NZ First has by far the best racing policy and a leader who is interested in the game. Winston Peters a former Racing Minister did more for racing in this role than any other party's I can remember put together. It was still fark all... but nevertheless he stuck to his word and was true to his policies. I'm a fan of Winston but I'm worried this election about his preferred alliances. :unsure:
I'd like to see him racing alongside Bill in English Blue. However I'm afraid he may choose Red Ardern... who I'd prefer to see sporting a bridle and tongue tie while racing around Ellerslie in a solo trial! :lol:

Thoughts anyone?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Winston's racing policy might be ok but much of the rest of what he has as bottom lines is lunacy.

The public are seeing through him this time and it's looking like he's going to be not needed, although he does have a core group of oldies who are 5-7%. His style of attack has become very stale & his interview with Espiner yesterday was dreadful, highlighting that he's past it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Love him or hate him Winnie is the only hope of championing our racing cause.  Hopefully he gets pulled in on the coattails of a National win, and can then assert some kind of pressure.

Personally , if Labour (god forbid) win this election I am seriously thinking of moving to Australia.  Anyone remember the saying " LAST ONE OUT TURN OUT THE LIGHT" ,

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A CGT is about increasing the tax base. Instead of taxing earnings (wages, interest, dividends and business profits) there is also tax on gains in value of assets (with exceptions). Seems on the face of it to be rather a fair principle! Unless you own lots of non-cash assets, in which case you probably have managed your income so you pay less than your share of tax.

However, reading this thread the implication for racing is that someone who gets lucky and their horse gains value could be taxed on that. I don't think so - in the current tax rules there is no tax on stakes won, and no deduction for the costs of racing the animal. This tax exemption will not be changed (imo) not whilst the costs far outweigh the stakes, something that is not about to alter. So it is hard to imagine that the same exemption would not apply to the value of the animal if sold at a profit by a non-business owner.

Others have commented on the hobby vs business situation, that if your business is trading horses then you will already be taxed on the profit because that is your business activity.

So I think there is nothing for racing folk to fear from a CGT.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Peter R S said:

A CGT is about increasing the tax base. Instead of taxing earnings (wages, interest, dividends and business profits) there is also tax on gains in value of assets (with exceptions). Seems on the face of it to be rather a fair principle! Unless you own lots of non-cash assets, in which case you probably have managed your income so you pay less than your share of tax.

However, reading this thread the implication for racing is that someone who gets lucky and their horse gains value could be taxed on that. I don't think so - in the current tax rules there is no tax on stakes won, and no deduction for the costs of racing the animal. This tax exemption will not be changed (imo) not whilst the costs far outweigh the stakes, something that is not about to alter. So it is hard to imagine that the same exemption would not apply to the value of the animal if sold at a profit by a non-business owner.

Others have commented on the hobby vs business situation, that if your business is trading horses then you will already be taxed on the profit because that is your business activity.

So I think there is nothing for racing folk to fear from a CGT.

 

Water tax.

Inheritance tax.

Land tax.

Emissions tax.

Regional petrol tax.

Capital Gains tax.

Tourists/visitors tax.

They're the ones I know they've admitted they're contemplating, God only knows how many others there'll be.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Peter R S said:

A CGT is about increasing the tax base. Instead of taxing earnings (wages, interest, dividends and business profits) there is also tax on gains in value of assets (with exceptions). Seems on the face of it to be rather a fair principle! Unless you own lots of non-cash assets, in which case you probably have managed your income so you pay less than your share of tax.

However, reading this thread the implication for racing is that someone who gets lucky and their horse gains value could be taxed on that. I don't think so - in the current tax rules there is no tax on stakes won, and no deduction for the costs of racing the animal. This tax exemption will not be changed (imo) not whilst the costs far outweigh the stakes, something that is not about to alter. So it is hard to imagine that the same exemption would not apply to the value of the animal if sold at a profit by a non-business owner.

Others have commented on the hobby vs business situation, that if your business is trading horses then you will already be taxed on the profit because that is your business activity.

So I think there is nothing for racing folk to fear from a CGT.

 

Been well covered you idiot.  Of course CGT will apply to a realized gain on any horse (or to any other asset, hobby or not,  one might make a capital profit on - except the famity home.  Bearing in mind that there will be a lot of lawyers get rich interpreting what constitutes a 'family home')

The Income Tax Act has specific exemptions for racing activities mainly because 99.9999% of people lose money on racing activities. If the average bloke won on racing they would have their hand out make no error.

Getting back to the CGT if you cannot add something intelligent please don't bother contributing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said:

Been well covered you idiot.  Of course CGT will apply to a realized gain on any horse (or to any other asset, hobby or not,  one might make a capital profit on - except the famity home.  Bearing in mind that there will be a lot of lawyers get rich interpreting what constitutes a 'family home')

The Income Tax Act has specific exemptions for racing activities mainly because 99.9999% of people lose money on racing activities. If the average bloke won on racing they would have their hand out make no error.

Getting back to the CGT if you cannot add something intelligent please don't bother contributing.

Tom you are totally wrong in my opinion. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, TOM(the other Molloy) said:

Been well covered you idiot.  Of course CGT will apply to a realized gain on any horse (or to any other asset, hobby or not,  one might make a capital profit on - except the famity home. 

Getting back to the CGT if you cannot add something intelligent please don't bother contributing.

Well let's see what happens if Labour do get elected, and everyone can then decide who is the idiot!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Leggy said:

Wrong? In what way Insider?

I don't believe that they will ever apply capital gains tax to a NON Taxable activity. 

Surely, what it's all about is simply taxing property, that is a taxable activity such as rental properties and houses (owned by speculators) that have risen dramatically in value, particularly in Auckland. 

It has had a two way effect: Firstly the owners have made millions and not paid a cent of tax except on the rental income. Secondly it has driven up the prices so quickly and so much so that the average person, the PAYE taxpayer, finds it impossible to buy their first house. 

Why wasn't this happening when I was young, and could afford to buy a house? Simple. It was a more egalitarian society with no overseas speculators, and not a group of people such as the "baby boomers" some of who have done very well and have taken the opportunity of putting their savings into property instead of shares or a superannuation scheme because of the tax advantage.

Oh and another reason, many of us lost a lot of money through the corrupt sharemarket in the 1987 crash and vowed NEVER to put our investments in the hands of other people again. 

Investment properties became the way to go, with NO tax on the increased value - capital gain, driven up by a quickly growing population, fueled by rapidly expanded immigration and the free market allowing overseas investment by foreigners, all of which became the perfect storm to make it all happen. 

Why shouldn't it be taxed?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, hesi said:

Ardern has said an Inheritance tax is definitely a no no

I thought also, she is looking specifically at a CGT tax to deter speculation on housing, specifically

Ms Ardern says her working group is looking at options that will make a difference to speculators entering the housing market and overheating it.

"The fact that someone who works a 40-hour week pays tax and someone who flicks four investment properties and doesn't in the same way - that's a question of fairness," she said.

Newshub.

Are people not adding  one and one and getting about 25, by assuming there would be an across the board CGT.

A water tax has been mooted at 1 cent per 1000 litres, that would be a 0.7% increase in Auckland, where water is $1.48, hardly significant and unlikely to have an impact on businesses

Hesi, you have got it in one. I can't understand the others who add up 1 + 1 and get 25. (To quote you.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's a little more complex than that Insider, housing is a worldwide issue and stems from a few key factors.

Housing is evolving and it's realistic to expect that the young today are going to live in apartments and not 1/4 acre sections, exactly the same way 1/4 acre sections replaced 100 acre blocks a century ago.

One of the biggest challenges today is rampant consumerism, which steals many the chance to save for a deposit,  social media creates an instantaneous world in which you must be seen and must have. 

Urbanisation has created a huge drift to metro cities where major offices are located, often for no practical need other than to be seen in the right part of town. Technology is rapidly evolving where the need for metro city living will diminish.

Environmental factors have in NZ/Australia has driven housing up where the land is more costly than the build.

A looming crisis is scarcity of resource and this crisis is going to hit the next generation very hard. Google up: The world running out of sand.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, Insider said:

I don't believe that they will ever apply capital gains tax to a NON Taxable activity. 

Surely, what it's all about is simply taxing property, that is a taxable activity such as rental properties and houses (owned by speculators) that have risen dramatically in value, particularly in Auckland. 

It has had a two way effect: Firstly the owners have made millions and not paid a cent of tax except on the rental income. Secondly it has driven up the prices so quickly and so much so that the average person, the PAYE taxpayer, finds it impossible to buy their first house. 

Why wasn't this happening when I was young, and could afford to buy a house? Simple. It was a more egalitarian society with no overseas speculators, and not a group of people such as the "baby boomers" some of who have done very well and have taken the opportunity of putting their savings into property instead of shares or a superannuation scheme because of the tax advantage.

Oh and another reason, many of us lost a lot of money through the corrupt sharemarket in the 1987 crash and vowed NEVER to put our investments in the hands of other people again. 

Investment properties became the way to go, with NO tax on the increased value - capital gain, driven up by a quickly growing population, fueled by rapidly expanded immigration and the free market allowing overseas investment by foreigners, all of which became the perfect storm to make it all happen. 

Why shouldn't it be taxed?

It wont stop at investment properties Insider. Name a CGT anywhere else in the world where it only applies to investment properties ?

Another question for you. Australia (for example) has a CGT. And a very expensive stamp duty on property purchases. What are property prices like in Sydney ???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, Insider said:

I don't believe that they will ever apply capital gains tax to a NON Taxable activity. 

Surely, what it's all about is simply taxing property, that is a taxable activity such as rental properties and houses (owned by speculators) that have risen dramatically in value, particularly in Auckland. 

It has had a two way effect: Firstly the owners have made millions and not paid a cent of tax except on the rental income. Secondly it has driven up the prices so quickly and so much so that the average person, the PAYE taxpayer, finds it impossible to buy their first house. 

Why wasn't this happening when I was young, and could afford to buy a house? Simple. It was a more egalitarian society with no overseas speculators, and not a group of people such as the "baby boomers" some of who have done very well and have taken the opportunity of putting their savings into property instead of shares or a superannuation scheme because of the tax advantage.

Oh and another reason, many of us lost a lot of money through the corrupt sharemarket in the 1987 crash and vowed NEVER to put our investments in the hands of other people again. 

Investment properties became the way to go, with NO tax on the increased value - capital gain, driven up by a quickly growing population, fueled by rapidly expanded immigration and the free market allowing overseas investment by foreigners, all of which became the perfect storm to make it all happen. 

Why shouldn't it be taxed?

We will take your first line Insider. 'I don't believe they will ever apply capital gains tax to a non TAXABLE activity'.

Now you have had it pointed out to you at least twice in this thread that residential rentals are a non taxable activity.  So are you saying that CGT will not apply to the rental property?

Shall I go on?

I can assure you that IF they put a CGT in place then, like GST, it will be comprehensive(ie will cover everything bar the family home).  Otherwise the courts will be bogged down for years trying to interpret what is in the net and what is not.  It will be a bloody nightmare and the only ones getting rich will be tax lawyers.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×