Sickopunter 403 Report post Posted September 9, 2017 10 minutes ago, Pickel said: S Here is the 125% Opening Top3 market for that Addington race: $1.75, $1.70, $2.70, $2, $1.35, $2.05, $5, $3.40 Something tells me those that took Ana Malak $1.70 Top3 were feeling pretty good when it started $1.70 to win on the Tote, I get the feeling that unfortunately you werent one of them. I also get the feeling, those that got the $1.70 in the 125% opening market felt that they, at the very least, got a fair deal. I certainly dont think that this market will drive them from the industry, quite the opposite in fact, I think they'll come back for more. You're off your head. I'm talking about a factual market that was not an opening market (or anywhere near it). I didn't bet the race at all. I couldn't justify it at such odds. It's often the case. This has nothing to do with what price the winner was on opening. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kotare_Hunter 748 Report post Posted September 9, 2017 10 hours ago, Brodie said: I would estimate it wouldn't be in the 120's until the last half hour at best! I am thinking you are an extremely poor estimator given there was a race at Rangiora under 126 last night. richie 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Report post Posted September 9, 2017 31 minutes ago, Kotare_Hunter said: I am thinking you are an extremely poor estimator given there was a race at Rangiora under 126 last night. What race Kotare? What we are saying is that the TAB has got so risk averse it is hurting the industry. Poor odds that don't attract wagering and if you are good at wagering then we won't let you wager! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kotare_Hunter 748 Report post Posted September 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, Brodie said: What race Kotare? What we are saying is that the TAB has got so risk averse it is hurting the industry. Poor odds that don't attract wagering and if you are good at wagering then we won't let you wager! Race 3 Unchanged since last night. What YOU said was ......... I would estimate it wouldn't be in the 120's until the last half hour at best! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basil 333 Report post Posted September 9, 2017 This thread is like deja vu all over again --- Dr Evil and Mini-Me once more banging on about their favourite (some might say only) topic. Still, they certainly liven the place up! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Report post Posted September 9, 2017 17 minutes ago, Kotare_Hunter said: Race 3 Unchanged since last night. What YOU said was ......... I would estimate it wouldn't be in the 120's until the last half hour at best! Is that the best you have got? One race under 130 out of all of them? Markets have been open long enough for them to be down and be enticing punters to have ago. Turnover must be affected due to the odds offered. Put fair odds up so that turnover is increased. If you can't put fair odds up then let the punters have a go at the poor,odds without the heavy restrictions. At the The of the day it is a gambling business but the TAB have got all of the strings and that is not fair ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kotare_Hunter 748 Report post Posted September 9, 2017 11 minutes ago, Brodie said: Is that the best you have got? One race under 130 out of all of them? I stopped when I found one LOL What I found was 132.74, 130.04 and 125.68 I figured there would be no adjustment of spots in your absence. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Report post Posted September 9, 2017 12 minutes ago, Kotare_Hunter said: I stopped when I found one LOL What I found was 132.74, 130.04 and 125.68 I figured there would be no adjustment of spots in your absence. Well done Kotare you found one under 130! One of the odd setters must have stuffed up on race 3. Have a look at all of them plus every other meeting and when they do reduce them! Not worth our time though as it is old ground, but the issue remains that the monopoly is not doing any good whatsoever with their business plan for harness racing in NZ. End of storey! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kotare_Hunter 748 Report post Posted September 9, 2017 7 minutes ago, Brodie said: Not worth our time though as it is old ground, but the issue remains that the monopoly is not doing any good whatsoever with their business plan for harness racing in NZ. You love old ground. Harness Racing is reliant on the monopoly for their funding. On the other hand you have options. BackPoonDrinkGoon 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Report post Posted September 9, 2017 Of course they are and they are not doing best for the industry with their business plan. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kotare_Hunter 748 Report post Posted September 9, 2017 38 minutes ago, Brodie said: Of course they are and they are not doing best for the industry with their business plan. By restricting persistent winners they show they are getting that part of their business plan right. What is Edwards opinion re the opening odds ? Not suggestng they are a really big deal in the overall scheme of things. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickel 45 Report post Posted September 9, 2017 9 hours ago, Sickopunter said: You're off your head. I'm talking about a factual market that was not an opening market (or anywhere near it). I didn't bet the race at all. I couldn't justify it at such odds. It's often the case. This has nothing to do with what price the winner was on opening. S YOU proposed a Question as to whether Punters were getting a Fair Go. YOU CHOSE as a case study the Top3 market for Addington Race 2 to help us answer your question. The Tote Place divs on that race were $1.30, $1.30 and $1.70. The Opening Fixed Top3 market offered $1.70, $2, and $2.05 about these horses. I think Everybody, including yourself, reading this thread will answer "Yes" to your question. Fixed Odds is all about First In, First Served - that's why connections love them - the winner of the race you chose opened $4.50 Fixed and paid $1.70 the Tote. Looks like the Punters made a fair pig of themselves getting their Fair Go out of Addington Race 2, the value was certainly exploited by the time that you looked. It would be good if all questions in the Industry had such an obvious answer. ALSO, during this thread I put forward the statement (not question) that the NZ Harness Opening Odds are the most punter-friendly in the world. No doubt you will join with me in being happy that no-one has refuted this statement. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Report post Posted September 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Pickel said: S YOU proposed a Question as to whether Punters were getting a Fair Go. YOU CHOSE as a case study the Top3 market for Addington Race 2 to help us answer your question. The Tote Place divs on that race were $1.30, $1.30 and $1.70. The Opening Fixed Top3 market offered $1.70, $2, and $2.05 about these horses. I think Everybody, including yourself, reading this thread will answer "Yes" to your question. Fixed Odds is all about First In, First Served - that's why connections love them - the winner of the race you chose opened $4.50 Fixed and paid $1.70 the Tote. Looks like the Punters made a fair pig of themselves getting their Fair Go out of Addington Race 2, the value was certainly exploited by the time that you looked. It would be good if all questions in the Industry had such an obvious answer. ALSO, during this thread I put forward the statement (not question) that the NZ Harness Opening Odds are the most punter-friendly in the world. No doubt you will join with me in being happy that no-one has refuted this statement. Pickel you clearly work for the TAB! It is your perogative to offer the odds that you do, and if we don't like them, then don't invest. However, you put the odds up and you do not treat all punters equally, which is in most reasonable thinking minds not a "fair go" You also slash the odds once a bet is placed by anything up to 40 per cent so I can't have another go as no value whatsoever. How about playing fair and putting your ability or the TAB's ability against the punter, rather than playing unfair???? I appreciate that what you do,is done around the world, but that doesn't make it right!!!!! As I have said on numerous occasions your business plan is flawed and you are losing punters with your crap odds and restrictions and I don't beleive your turnover that being fixed and tote will be increasing! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackSprat 947 Report post Posted September 10, 2017 58 minutes ago, Brodie said: Pickel you clearly work for the TAB! It is your perogative to offer the odds that you do, and if we don't like them, then don't invest. However, you put the odds up and you do not treat all punters equally, which is in most reasonable thinking minds not a "fair go" You also slash the odds once a bet is placed by anything up to 40 per cent so I can't have another go as no value whatsoever. How about playing fair and putting your ability or the TAB's ability against the punter, rather than playing unfair???? I appreciate that what you do,is done around the world, but that doesn't make it right!!!!! As I have said on numerous occasions your business plan is flawed and you are losing punters with your crap odds and restrictions and I don't beleive your turnover that being fixed and tote will be increasing! So now every clear thinking person who understands how the TAB operates "clearly works for the TAB"? As Pickel has "clearly" pointed out, the "overs" were there - you were just too busy bleating on Racecafe about how hard done by you are to grab them! Kotare_Hunter, Thejanitor, tonkatime and 1 other 3 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Report post Posted September 10, 2017 Ana Malak at 1.70 fixed for a top 3 on opening I wouldn't get carried away with as value on what it had done at the trials and considering the field had many chances and the Tab had 5 paying well less than $2 top 3 on opening. Just because someone had plenty of goes on it and shortened it up didn't mean it was value to most punters that were not in the know on opening. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickel 45 Report post Posted September 10, 2017 1 hour ago, Brodie said: Pickel you clearly work for the TAB! It is your perogative to offer the odds that you do, and if we don't like them, then don't invest. However, you put the odds up and you do not treat all punters equally, which is in most reasonable thinking minds not a "fair go" You also slash the odds once a bet is placed by anything up to 40 per cent so I can't have another go as no value whatsoever. How about playing fair and putting your ability or the TAB's ability against the punter, rather than playing unfair???? I appreciate that what you do,is done around the world, but that doesn't make it right!!!!! As I have said on numerous occasions your business plan is flawed and you are losing punters with your crap odds and restrictions and I don't beleive your turnover that being fixed and tote will be increasing! Brodie Yesterday you called me a liar for posting the market percentages for Addington, today you've promoted/demoted me to the TAB. Shall we forget me, and stick to the topic. Here are the opening Top3 percentages for Rangiora today: (I was hoping that you might've done this already) 126% R3; 130% R2,4,6,8; 134% R1,7; 135% R5. When you talk of "crap odds" - what do you actually mean? Can you put up a percentage is it over 150%, or over 130%? Same for "fair odds", please put a number on this so then everyone will understand you? Is Under 130% fair, or under 100%? Also are you guided strictly by the percentage, and so you would say that R3 at Rangiora is the best today because it is 126%? OR are you swayed by the over-round to fieldsize ratio, in which case R2 at 130% and 15 horses means only 2% over-round per runner? Give us your numbers so that we may understand you. You dont have to say whether you backed Ana Malak at$4.50 or not, you've given very big clues! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kotare_Hunter 748 Report post Posted September 10, 2017 6 minutes ago, Brodie said: Just because someone had plenty of goes on it and shortened it up didn't mean it was value to most punters that were not in the know on opening. Are you blaming the TAB odds setters for most punters not realising it was value on opening ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sickopunter 403 Report post Posted September 10, 2017 Saying one horse was value in a market doesn't prove anything. If that's the theory you are working on how terrible was the value on the rest of them.....? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Report post Posted September 10, 2017 2 hours ago, Pickel said: Brodie Yesterday you called me a liar for posting the market percentages for Addington, today you've promoted/demoted me to the TAB. Shall we forget me, and stick to the topic. Here are the opening Top3 percentages for Rangiora today: (I was hoping that you might've done this already) 126% R3; 130% R2,4,6,8; 134% R1,7; 135% R5. When you talk of "crap odds" - what do you actually mean? Can you put up a percentage is it over 150%, or over 130%? Same for "fair odds", please put a number on this so then everyone will understand you? Is Under 130% fair, or under 100%? Also are you guided strictly by the percentage, and so you would say that R3 at Rangiora is the best today because it is 126%? OR are you swayed by the over-round to fieldsize ratio, in which case R2 at 130% and 15 horses means only 2% over-round per runner? Give us your numbers so that we may understand you. You dont have to say whether you backed Ana Malak at$4.50 or not, you've given very big clues! Pickel, firstly where have I stated that you are a liar????? Secondly can you confirm that you have no connection with the TAB? Thirdly, so only one race was set at under 130 per cent, but I know that on most occasions the openings are mid 130's. I beleive that in the 130,s opening is too high. What they should be doing is attracting punting and they can adjust up and down according to the amount going on! With the crap odds on opening and restrictions on certain punters and then slashing odds with pathetic amounts on from restricted punters is not a fair or sensible plan. The Bookies should be able to back their ability but it certainly appears that they don't seem to have a lot due to having many of the horses at unders. What is fair is I would say 125 per cent and why not open and leave at that and as I say adjust up and down according to wagers? No I didn't back Ana Malak and even though it won and was backed in it was probably backed by the stable !!!!! Cant see how 1.70 a place in that field was this so called value even though it won. $1.70 is milk money and if you have to back horses at those odds then you are clearly struggling! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kotare_Hunter 748 Report post Posted September 10, 2017 38 minutes ago, Brodie said: $1.70 is milk money and if you have to back horses at those odds then you are clearly struggling! Plenty bathing in milk ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Report post Posted September 10, 2017 26 minutes ago, Kotare_Hunter said: Plenty bathing in milk ? Wouldn't think they would be able to afford to bathe in milk if they need to be backing at those odds, seriously. Remember Kotare, winning punters can't get much on! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonkatime 323 Report post Posted September 10, 2017 17 hours ago, Brodie said: Pickel you clearly work for the TAB! 13 hours ago, Brodie said: Secondly can you confirm that you have no connection with the TAB? Brodie clearly you are Peter Lamb, Can you please confirm you are not Peter Lamb? Spikecity 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Report post Posted September 10, 2017 Interesting that Pickel hasn't answered my question! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonkatime 323 Report post Posted September 10, 2017 2 hours ago, Brodie said: Interesting that Pickel hasn't answered my question! Check the time they were last active, it was prior to your question being posted so in this instance the "Broadster" is off the money. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Report post Posted September 10, 2017 37 minutes ago, tonkatime said: Check the time they were last active, it was prior to your question being posted so in this instance the "Broadster" is off the money. Clearly can't take the heat! "The Brodster" is always on the money and you know that. Pickel clearly is involved with the TAB as very defensive. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...