All Weather initiative

[hedley 1,900]

https://www.odt.co.nz/sport/racing/nzrb-eyeing-all-weather-facilities

[Guest 2Admin2]

Who pays?

[Midget 4,489]

NZRB as he says it requires tricode approval, unless of course he means using the NZRB to facilitate or guarantee a TB code loan which would still arguably require the other two codes signing off at board level.

[TOM(the other Molloy) 1,774]

He mentioned a 'weather friendly location' for an all weather track.

Looks like we will all be relocating to the Cook Islands

[MrBigStuff 398]

"We can’t keep living with infrastructure that was appropriate 40 or 50 years ago."

"We need some track infrastructure, particularly in the main horse population areas, that can support racing more reliably over more of the year.

New facilities can mean  existing tracks may need to go and the clubs that race there need to make some tough decisions about their futures.

I think everybody is recognising we can’t keep on with this. We have got to make some calls as a group and we have got to start making some changes."

 

hallelujah!!!! Because it needs to happen!

[Midget 4,489]

Maybe he reads Cafe, it's pretty fecken obvious how this should be done in a cost effective manner as we keep mentioning here.

He might also want to reflect on the way we as a code have wasted hundreds of millions over the years in some bizarre pursuit of higher stakes, at the expense of infrastructural investment and R&M, hence we've got all these below par swamps and ramshackle facilities now.

If only we had one decent brain in Petone since 2003, then none of this would've happened.

 

[Berri 2,131]

Although the following may be contentious, it needs to be discussed...

All weather track racing is very boring as the way the surface acts dictates the pattern of racing.

Many grass track horses don't perform on all weather tracks.

What actual artificial surface will be used because although the surfaces are adequate under specific conditions, New Zealand tends to have a completely different climate attitude so the success or not of the surface will be dependant on the right interpretation of the climate in that area

It is the impression that the all weather tracks will be utilised during the winter season because it is the perception that because of the poor winter weather and tracks, the all weather will replace this issue. The winter could be perceived to be from May to August..What is apparent though is that there are as many race meeting called off outside of this time period, so the issue really is IF we invested the same funds on logical restoration and management of the current race tracks, would that eliminate many of the cancellations. It would seem that in the UK, France or Australia to name three, that they proportionately have less cancellations than we do.

The question of the requirements for the tri-code to agree is interesting. It would seem that the disaffected party is galloping as both dogs and trots generally speaking run on all weather tracks anyway.

The notion that all weather tracks are of benefit is to say that all weather racing (post better management of the current race tracks) creates a market niche for NZ racing that would improve the current betting revenue commensurate to the cost (IRR and that relevant barometer). I have yet to have been presented with any evidence to suggest this is investible.

I may be boring to the extent that I repeat myself in respect of replacing the winter flat galloping with a proper jumping program and facilities. I repeat myself because I have seen the spectacle and participation/ betting figures in NZ. I believe that it will also enhance the longevity and value to the thoroughbred industry (both horse stock and human participant). I don't believe that the current tinkering with a flawed jumps program is a true reflection of the potential because no-one that I have met in this country understands the way you can structure the program (starting with a bumper program for three year olds all the way through to the championships).

If we are going to do this, lets make it properly for the future. 4 super venues should be created.

Each should have at 3000 acres at their disposal. Each should have two race tracks with multiple training tracks. Each of the racing tracks should be able to cater for at least 30 runners. One of the two tracks should be a championship track.

 At least one of them should have a home straight should be at least 1600m in length.

Each venue should be built next to a small town so as to obtain resource consent for at least 1000 dwellings  in order to create a real estate play to cover the cost of the entire project, and to provide accommodation for the industry participants (horses too) and support service providers. Part of this should be a retail development. The real estate play can be part sale/ purchase and part long term lease in order to provide affordable housing.

Each venue should also accommodate facilities for alternative equestrian sports.

If you want all weather tracks, this could be part of the centralised play.

Just go to the UK and to China to see what the blue print looks like. Anyone that has been to Newmarket will understand what I am saying.

We need to look 40 years ahead to get this right. It is not only all weather that will make NZ racing a viable proposition. Rationalise the current structure to accommodate the seed capital to execute the model.

 

 

[Berri 2,131]

A typo,

"I repeat myself because I have seen the spectacle and participation/ betting figures in NZ" is meant to be "the UK" not NZ.

[Midget 4,489]

Berrifruit, can you help me understand what's wrong with the AW at Mooney Valley, Sha Tin, Ruakaka etc....I think you're being  a bit unfair grouping all types of AW as one old fella.

[berzerk 107]

All-weather racing by far preferable to the dreadful racing NZ serves up on Heavy 11 surfaces. Currently a poor visual spectacle with inconsitent, random results, giving punters little confidence. A betting medium I choose to avoid if possible.

Another positive an all-weather brings is as a training surface during the frustrating late winter and early spring. Preparing spring horses for feature races currently very difficult. 

[Midget 4,489]

29 minutes ago, hesi said:

Yeah, what about Shatin, built on reclaimed land, in a place where they get 400mm of rain per annum(a lot more than most places in NZ)

The only thing synthetic about the Strathayr track, that I understand they have there, is the small pieces of plastic mesh that are incorporated into the soil before it is seeded.  I presume this is to hold the top layer of turf together, and provide some elasticity to the surface.

Never heard the racing at Shatin described as boring, if it is, then we'll have it anyway.

 

Strathayr is laminated, it's definitely AW and that makes it synthetic ( as in not natural ) doesn't it ?

[puha 2,177]

The Chinese want to build new infrastructure in NZ . Why not do a deal to build a new all purpose racecourse ?

[We're Doomed 4,866]

I don't quite follow the logic of an all-weather track stopping the 34 abandoned meetings we had last season. Most of our abandoned meetings occur in the summer time on slippery tracks, and often after the first race or two. I can't see an all-weather track at Matamata helping a meeting at Gore in January that gets called off after the first race.

On the positive side though it is good to see something being done.

[Berri 2,131]

3 hours ago, Midget said:

Berrifruit, can you help me understand what's wrong with the AW at Mooney Valley, Sha Tin, Ruakaka etc....I think you're being  a bit unfair grouping all types of AW as one old fella.

The question that I have for you is quite simple....after watching equal amounts of racing on turf and synthetic, which one do you like the most?

Which one exposes the best of the horse as an event?

Ruakaka? not sure I've seen one there.

As I said previously, the environment will dictate what sort of AW surface you need to use and the biggest argument has been that because we have such average weather in the winter, we need all weather tracks. So my argument is that many of the track meets that are called off are in the so called "good months or racing". My argument is that where is the research to show which AW surface suits NZ (and what region because they are all different) and how do the financials stack up re improving the current tracks vs convert grass tracks to AW? I can't see the scenario (operational with staff etc) where in March Matamata is called off at 6.00am and everything is automatically moved to another track in the Waikato which is AW. I could though make an argument where in the same venue, which has a grass and AW track, where it pisses down with rain and the grass track is ruled unsafe, and everything is automatically switched to the AW at the same venue.

I will keep coming back to it...the jumping racing in our yester year was sensational. We lost our way due to inept ridiculous management, a lack of funding and the tree huggers. With but a few smarts we could set it up correctly.

[Bimbo 734]

9 hours ago, 2Admin2 said:

Who pays?

The punters.  They fund everything.  That's how racing works.

[Midget 4,489]

3 hours ago, hesi said:

Strathayr is basically ready lawn, turf grass, except with lots of small pieces of plastic mesh incorporated into the turf when it is grown.

The only synthetic part therefore is the plastic

 

It's laminated with different materials, stop being a dil.

Edited August 1, 2017 by scooby3051
Language

[Midget 4,489]

2 hours ago, hesi said:

Yeah it's like your brain, laminated, or more accurately delaminated

http://ua-rtip.org/sites/ua-rtip.org/files/casimaty.pdf

I guess you don't know what laminated means.

I'll give you a clue, that diagram with the different layers, and the mesh membrane, that's lamination, and it doesn't happen by accident.

[Leggy 4,089]

3 hours ago, Midget said:

I guess you don't know what laminated means.

I'll give you a clue, that diagram with the different layers, and the mesh membrane, that's lamination, and it doesn't happen by accident.

Laminated means layered. Layering natural materials doesn't make something synthetic, as in made by chemical synthesis, even if you run drains made of synthetic materials through the layers. The Riccarton track relaid 20 odd years ago is laminated. I don't think anyone (you possibly excepted) would call it synthetic as a result. The lamination certainly doesn't happen by accident but intentional man made layering and synthetics are two different things. Stop conflating the two. I.e., don't be a dill.

[Insider 3,961]

1 hour ago, Leggy said:

The Riccarton track relaid 20 odd years ago is laminated. I don't think anyone (you possibly excepted) would call it synthetic as a result. 

Leggy what then is the "laminated layer" in the Riccarton track that now stops it draining well, causes the grass to be shallow rooted and the top to fly to bits with the slightest of moisture. Oh and in the summer dry off so quickly as they can't afford to put on too much water becsuse of the reasons above. 

I thought it was because, it was recambered by a roading contractor using heavy machinery and though that he was building a road and did what he normally did to maintain the shape, compact it!

[Berri 2,131]

Interesting....

The

natural turf track attracts 30% more betting

than the synthetic track

Fertiliser ......100kg/ha every 2 weeks.....that's a lot considering standard dairy farms use 300kg/ha pa and we think that's too much

[Huey 2,037]

"Fast Food" racing on its way to New Zealand ...zzzzzz... hooray.

[Midget 4,489]

3 hours ago, Leggy said:

Laminated means layered. Layering natural materials doesn't make something synthetic, as in made by chemical synthesis, even if you run drains made of synthetic materials through the layers. The Riccarton track relaid 20 odd years ago is laminated. I don't think anyone (you possibly excepted) would call it synthetic as a result. The lamination certainly doesn't happen by accident but intentional man made layering and synthetics are two different things. Stop conflating the two. I.e., don't be a dill.

Synthetic as in artificially constructed using a mix of layered organic and non organic materials.

I'm pretty confident I'm correct given that Srathayr has a webbing membrane in it.

Stop being a train spotter who's a google expert who pretends he's an academic.

[Guest 2Admin2]

3 hours ago, Leggy said:

Laminated means layered. Layering natural materials doesn't make something synthetic, as in made by chemical synthesis, even if you run drains made of synthetic materials through the layers. The Riccarton track relaid 20 odd years ago is laminated. I don't think anyone (you possibly excepted) would call it synthetic as a result. The lamination certainly doesn't happen by accident but intentional man made layering and synthetics are two different things. Stop conflating the two. I.e., don't be a dill.

Slight correction Leggy - lamination is when you bond a layer to another layer e.g. a thin layer of mahogany veneer bonded to a panel of MDF particle board. A Strathayr track is layered but it isn't "laminated"......  

A Strathayr track is only artificial in the sense that the native (existing) soil and structure down to some depth is removed and replaced by a an optimised turf, soil and drainage system.  The only artificial elements are the drainage pipes in the lower level and plastic mesh in the turf.  The plastic mesh is an "artificial" means of maintaining soil structure (drainage, aeration) and prolonging the soil life.  Eventually the top layer will succumb to the mechanical impacts of racing and the structure will start to falter.  Hence the reconditioning requirement of Strathayr tracks.  However it lasts a lot longer than "natural" soil structures.  New Zealand racing tracks are suffering from decades of use, monoculture and the pounding of hooves, tractors and other machines has broken the soil structure to the point where they become rock hard during dry periods and heavy when it rains.  They don't drain nor retain moisture because the soil structure is stuffed.  Sand slitting artificially provides drainage and aeration but over time the sand disperses and literally goes down the drain.  Hence the need to keep slitting.

A Strathayr track will never provide a fast surface nor a heavy one due to its moisture retention and drainage properties.  

All well and good to promote AW tracks but do we have the management expertise to maintain them?

[Guest 2Admin2]

2 minutes ago, Midget said:

Synthetic as in artificially constructed using a mix of layered organic and non organic materials.

I'm pretty confident I'm correct given that Srathayr has a webbing membrane in it.

Stop being a train spotter who's a google expert who pretends he's an academic.

Yes there is a mesh in the turf layer but its purpose is to mimic good soil structure.  To quote from the Strathayr web site:

The StrathAyr Track provides an extremely resilient, safe and long lasting natural grass surface. The racetrack construction consists of a specially engineered profile that incorporates a base drainage layer of gravel and pipes, a lower layer of sand and an upper rootzone layer reinforced with unique ReFlex® mesh elements.

The result is a natural turf racing surface which combines remarkable surface strength, excellent drainage and improved grass growth, allowing increased usage over a longer period.

The Hong Kong Jockey Club pioneered this all weather natural turf track concept 20 years ago and since that time StrathAyr has further refined the design and developed specialised construction machinery.

[Guest 2Admin2]

ReFlex® mesh elements add an extra dimension to the performance of StrathAyr surfaces.

 

When ReFlex® mesh elements - 50mm by 100mm (2" by 4") pieces of flexible polypropylene mesh – are blended uniformly within a rootzone profile the mesh elements reinforce three dimensionally, acting like thousands of springs to improve load bearing ability and resistance to compaction.

The spring back action also creates a cushioning effect on impact, "bounce back" after impact. Improved rootzone aeration is achieved resulting in greatly improved grass growth and recovery after wear.

ReFlex® performance benefits have been scientifically demonstrated and proven in some of the world's leading sports stadia and racetracks over the past 20 years. 
No alternative product can match the engineering performance of ReFlex®. In fact, some alternative rootzone reinforcement products have the opposite effect and actually increase the likelihood of compaction and poor turf growth.

Understanding ReFlex® Technology

• Soil particles interlock with the mesh, packing into the mesh apertures to form a soil/mesh cluster. These clusters then interlock to form a stable composite rootzone matrix.

• When this matrix rootzone is compressed by players, horses or vehicles the mesh elements provide a dual effect. They act like thousands of springs, flexing vertically as the load is applied to the surface and returning to their original form after the load is released.
• At the same time the applied load compresses the soil within the mesh apertures causing them to expand laterally. As the load is removed the apertures shrink back elastically and the surface profile recovers. This combined mesh flexing and elastic straining of the apertures provides unique impact absorption and surface recovery properties.
• Equally importantly it creates and maintains voids along the length of the mesh filaments, which maintain air spaces in the rootzone, enhance capillary water retention and ultimately provide an improved environment for grass growth.
• The load bearing properties provide a significant increase in surface strength and a built in resistance to compaction - leading to a greatly extended working life