Hong Kong Season

[optical 41]

49 minutes ago, La Zip said:

Not entirely convinced by your comments "the very best trainers in the world".  I would vehemently oppose any of my horses being trained by a "local" trainer. If you read the track work and watch the trials, I'm absolutely gobsmacked how some have a license to train, including some of the long term local trainers.  Unless of course, all is not as it seems...oh, that's right, couldn't possibly be anything questionable happening in Hong Kong, could there be?  I think there is a considerable amount of "smoke & mirrors" and no asks the question!  

That's a fair point regarding the trainers. But in order for the overseas trainers to get a licence they generally have to have won a premiership or done something exceptional in their home country first. I was probably a wee bit general with my previous comment. 

[Racing101 12]

Anyone who believes Hong Kong trainers are great are idiots. Those people don't know how to train and have they have no idea about the horses they are buying.

[Trump 2,741]

That's why they employ Bloodstock Agents to buy for them. 

[kdt 291]

1 hour ago, Racing101 said:

Anyone who believes Hong Kong trainers are great are idiots. Those people don't know how to train and have they have no idea about the horses they are buying.

What are you on about?. Are you referring to "local" trainers or the likes of Paul O'Sullivan, John Size etc. if it is the latter category you need to give yourself an upper cut and I would say give yourself another one for the local trainers as well.

[Sickopunter 403]

2 hours ago, Racing101 said:

Anyone who believes Hong Kong trainers are great are idiots. Those people don't know how to train and have they have no idea about the horses they are buying.

Greatest trainers in the world and in many cases that's the only way you can get in there. The local trainers have nearly always had an amazing grounding under trainers of the same ilk.

[Racing101 12]

Do you guys actually know what you are talking or have you looked into it?? I have seen on so many occasions recently that they buy horses that are breed to stay and raced over a distance in other countries and they are running them over sprint trips .  I will give you guys an example they bought a horse from France that had won both its starts at 2000m as 2yr and then raced it over 1000-1600m after that. 

So you guys tell me is that good training??

[Sickopunter 403]

1 minute ago, Racing101 said:

Do you guys actually know what you are talking or have you looked into it?? I have seen on so many occasions recently that they buy horses that are breed to stay and raced over a distance in other countries and they are running them over sprint trips .  I will give you guys an example they bought a horse from France that had won both its starts at 2000m as 2yr and then raced it over 1000-1600m after that. 

So you guys tell me is that good training??

You are only looking at things in a way that you feel suits you. More often than not well performed horses from overseas come in prohibitively highly rated. This is a way to bring them down in the handicaps and not put too much pressure on them while they are acclimatizing. It's very commonly done in HK. And no, not just by "local" trainers. By the way do you consider Caspar Fownes and Tony Cruz local trainers? Or just Chinese trainers? Consider your answer carefully.

[optical 41]

10 minutes ago, Racing101 said:

Do you guys actually know what you are talking or have you looked into it?? I have seen on so many occasions recently that they buy horses that are breed to stay and raced over a distance in other countries and they are running them over sprint trips .  I will give you guys an example they bought a horse from France that had won both its starts at 2000m as 2yr and then raced it over 1000-1600m after that. 

So you guys tell me is that good training??

My understanding, some trainers have control of what goes in their stable and ensure that the horse that they will only train a pre -approved horse like Moore/ Size etc. Some other trainers don't have the luxury of choice so have to train them whether there are suitable races for the horse or not - I imagine a horse as you mention might of been a pre - purchase or an agent purchase that would be put into a trainer's stable. 

[La Zip 468]

Racing 101 is on the button, also, while you may think it irrelevant look at some of the stupid, crazy and senseless names they give previous lovely named horses? Respect for the animal? The local trainers are useless and I'm being kind, many of those well performed horses from other nations that are unlucky enough to end their lives in HK, lose all form, and are put under pressure by poorly educated locals, all protected by the protocols available to them by their ''network' in HK business/Government and or the jockey club itself.......none of mine will ever knowingly find themselves with a local trainer in HK! maybe through necessity a well performed ex-pat, yes. The likes of M Freedman especially!

[La Zip 468]

Could I add, should one of mine go to an established ex-pat in HK, it will be with a written contract for a return ticket!......at my expense, that's the respect I have for my home breds.

[Sickopunter 403]

On 24/07/2017 at 7:26 AM, La Zip said:

Racing 101 is on the button, also, while you may think it irrelevant look at some of the stupid, crazy and senseless names they give previous lovely named horses? Respect for the animal? The local trainers are useless and I'm being kind, many of those well performed horses from other nations that are unlucky enough to end their lives in HK, lose all form, and are put under pressure by poorly educated locals, all protected by the protocols available to them by their ''network' in HK business/Government and or the jockey club itself.......none of mine will ever knowingly find themselves with a local trainer in HK! maybe through necessity a well performed ex-pat, yes. The likes of M Freedman especially!

Can you please explain what you mean by poorly educated locals? Also a huge number of HK owners end up sending them back to where they came from or to a nice retirement paddock somewhere. I have someone looking to buy next year and one of the first things he said was that he wants them to have a nice place back in NZ to retire to.

[optical 41]

On 24/07/2017 at 3:26 AM, La Zip said:

Racing 101 is on the button, also, while you may think it irrelevant look at some of the stupid, crazy and senseless names they give previous lovely named horses? Respect for the animal? The local trainers are useless and I'm being kind, many of those well performed horses from other nations that are unlucky enough to end their lives in HK, lose all form, and are put under pressure by poorly educated locals, all protected by the protocols available to them by their ''network' in HK business/Government and or the jockey club itself.......none of mine will ever knowingly find themselves with a local trainer in HK! maybe through necessity a well performed ex-pat, yes. The likes of M Freedman especially!

I think Chris So and Tony Cruz would probably beg to differ with you. Chris has a fine strike rate and Tony won just about as much prize money as John Size!

Maybe you would be better being more specific with your examples?

Previous Season Up to Race Meeting of 16/07/2017	Current Season
(Overseas records not included)

All ST Turf ST AWT HV Turf 

Trainers' Ranking	View in Percentage
Trainer	Win	2nd	3rd	4th	5th	Total Runs	Stakes Won
J Size	95	75	50	64	43	541	$120,752,163
J Moore	67	50	55	50	35	537	$155,263,295
C Fownes	61	35	44	44	53	569	$56,397,330
W Y So	56	35	37	44	31	495	$48,362,110
A S Cruz	50	74	46	53	62	594	$118,534,493
C S Shum	48	36	55	41	43	542	$60,154,053
P F Yiu	45	44	34	40	34	453	$52,324,675
Y S Tsui	39	36	61	42	37	574	$43,533,143
C H Yip	39	30	40	36	48	569	$42,365,115
D J Hall	37	35	32	25	25	374	$39,046,200
A T Millard	36	32	32	41	42	445	$37,826,575
D E Ferraris	33	39	47	42	45	459	$34,938,110
L Ho	30	33	21	23	26	403	$28,253,685
T P Yung	28	42	28	31	50	454	$34,341,950
P O'Sullivan	27	39	57	47	27	443	$46,696,725
K W Lui	23	35	26	25	20	359	$41,416,950
K L Man	20	28	32	40	35	466	$24,139,085
R Gibson	20	21	28	27	30	316	$22,199,620
A Lee	19	30	26	24	43	437	$19,385,125
C W Chang	16	25	22	31	31	385	$17,584,700
D Cruz	8	19	25	16	21	301	$12,215,925
T K Ng	8	13	7	20	15	248	$8,122,475

[scooby3051 10,863]

On 7/23/2017 at 1:41 PM, Sickopunter said:

You are only looking at things in a way that you feel suits you. More often than not well performed horses from overseas come in prohibitively highly rated. This is a way to bring them down in the handicaps and not put too much pressure on them while they are acclimatizing. It's very commonly done in HK. And no, not just by "local" trainers. By the way do you consider Caspar Fownes and Tony Cruz local trainers? Or just Chinese trainers? Consider your answer carefully.

The guy is a obvious dill... why waste time with him... to be there you HAVE to be good... or you simply don't survive.... 101 needs a few uppercuts!!!!