RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
Berri

Showcasing is a smart sire

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2017 Select Yearling Sale by average price sold and their service fees (2016 service fees). Numbers pulled off NZB website.

I have used Select I believe that Select Sale is the middle market and Premier and Festival statistics added in can distort the numbers. There was only one Showcasing in the Premier Sale in 2017 and he was withdrawn.

I normally add $25,000 to the cost of the service fee to get your cost at yearling sale time. If you prepare yourself on your own land then obviously cheaper.

Jakkalberry     $92,500      ($6,000)


Smart Missile  $86,667      (AUS$22,000)


Per Incanto     $80,118      ($15,000)


Poet's Voice    $68,667      (AUS$11,000)


Power             $59,818       ($8,000)


Darci Brahma  $57,167       ($15,000)


Swiss Ace        $57,125       ($13,500)


Showcasing     $56,227        ($15,000)


Iffraaj              $55,192          ($15,000)


Shocking         $54,500         ($8,500)

dock leaf, gary1, Black Kirrama and 1 other like this

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3 hours ago, Dopey said:

I'd be interested in his ave sales results vs his peer group - Per Incanto may look much better in that regard. SCing has two hemispheres helping his stakes performers numbers but has done particularly well in that regard 

 

Nasrullah has already typed a bit of what I was going to type.

Showcasing has a slightly better SW/runners ratio in the southern hemisphere than Per Incanto. He is about 5% Per Incanto has about 4%.

However in K2 (i use K2 as I feel this is the best place to perceive value to a stallion as middle of the road mares) Per Incanto averages about 77K selling 18 and passing 1 and Showcasing about 56K, sold 11, 5 passed.

Darci Brahma averages about 53K 10 sold, 2 passed in K2 and has just over 6.6% stakes winners and 7 G1 winners in Aus and NZ . Pins is higher rate of SW in Aus and NZ of 7.4% but only averages 50K in K2. Of course these are older stallions and im not comparing stallions at a similar career stage. 

But even so, I think that Per Incanto signifies similar value and if you want to go to a proven stallion to breed and race or to sell to the asian market then Darci Brahma presents value. 

Insider, I was just curious to where you judge value and opinions are very important in this game and you obviously back showcasing in this regard. When someone uses the term "value" I assume that they would breed to the stallion at a higher value. My personal opinion is that I think that he is at the right price in the current market. Doing a good job - yes, getting some good results in the ring - yes, has potential to go higher but I feel he needs a top marquee horse to take him to that next level much like Iffraaj has taken off in the last 6 months. 

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Optical, it is of course a personal point of view and involves looking into the future, in other words a bit of crystal ball gazing. 

I certainly like taking into account results on the track, percentages of stakes winners to foals. Can a horse produce a Group One winner etc etc? That's were I see Showcasing both now and in the future.

Results though at the Sales can paint a very distorted view. Take the ones above. Iffraaj is at the bottom. Is that a true reflection of his ability to sire top class animals on the track? I don't think so. 

Another example. Smart Missile is near the top. Talking from personal experience I certainly wouldn't pay the training fees on one today, but obviously others would. His better horses can hardly win more than a couple of races and people are paying an average of 86k for a K2 one? 

You see it's all a personal point of view using selective statistics. 

I prefer to use the ones from the track not the Sales ring.

 

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Thanks for all the info.

His fee here $12k does seem good value compared to 35k Euro up north! I guess he hasn't had a super-star down under so that the Aussie buyers etc. take notice (he has had a Karaka million winner and derby place getter etc.).

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It's been canvassed here before ... beware predicating anything on sales ring prices - especially with relatively new sires who the studs are trying hard to hype up.

You may not realise the same returns for the progeny of that sire that the big studs appear to "achieve" in teh sales ring.

There is more smoke and mirrors and skulduggery at the yearling sales than in Todd Barclay's Clutha-Southland electorate.

Results on the track will tell the story for the established sires (but be careful how these stat.s are expressed by parties with vested interests  ....make sure you compare like with like).

And for the new sires - it's always gonna be a punt I believe - I've got some very right in the past and some others proved to be rather average.  

J.

   

 

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8 hours ago, Insider said:

Another example. Smart Missile is near the top. Talking from personal experience I certainly wouldn't pay the training fees on one today, but obviously others would. His better horses can hardly win more than a couple of races and people are paying an average of 86k for a K2 one? 

 

 

Think you may be a bit tough on Smart Missile, oldest are still only 3YO.

68 winners from first crop so far not all bad ............., far and away most winners from 2nd crop stallions in Aus and NZ.

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34 minutes ago, fitzy said:

Think you may be a bit tough on Smart Missile, oldest are still only 3YO.

68 winners from first crop so far not all bad ............., far and away most winners from 2nd crop stallions in Aus and NZ.

A big reason his winner numbers are high is the massive books he has served, averaging 200 mares a season for his first 4 books! Is getting 50% winners to runners but only has 2 Group winners and 2 Listed winners (and these were in Perth/South Australia and the South Island!) from 155 to race!

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Mr Hanks another stakes winner for Showcasing overnight in Singapore. Raced previously in NZ as Oscar Eight where he was Listed placed.

Showcasing a good proven option at $12,000 (Stud will negotiate price also), particularly if you are wanting a 2yo/3yo sprinting type

 

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Haunui has an excellent international stallion line up. Probably the best sire offering at any NZ farm.

Showcasing has 330 foals from his last three SH foal crops so there is a lot more progeny yet to race. In the U.K. He stands for PDS 25,000 which is the high esteem in which is placed in the NH. Power stands in the UK for PDS 8,000 but stands for the same fee in NZ

 

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On 8/1/2017 at 4:05 PM, WOODBINE said:

Haunui has an excellent international stallion line up. Probably the best sire offering at any NZ farm.

Showcasing has 330 foals from his last three SH foal crops so there is a lot more progeny yet to race. In the U.K. He stands for PDS 25,000 which is the high esteem in which is placed in the NH. Power stands in the UK for PDS 8,000 but stands for the same fee in NZ

 

Ill use Galileo as an example of a horse that stands at amazing fee up there but people find it hard to touch him down here. You can't compare the hemispheres, apart from aligning that he can leave a very good horse.

Showcasing is a very promising stallion in the SH and a very good stallion in the NH, but you cannot correlate what he is doing up there to what he stands for down here.

If he stood for 35,000 down here I think he would be hanging out for a shag for the season. He is about 10% SW to runners up there, where only 5% down here. Both fees represent him well in the market for what he is doing at stud at the moment. 

 

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