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La Zip

New stallion for Brighthills

34 posts in this topic

Have just seen on Twitter that Brighthills have acquired Preferment.  A nice son of Zabeel from a daughter of Flying Spur and a winner of 4 Group 1s.  No fee was mentioned. I though they might have retired the horse last year... 

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12,500 + GST. 

I like him. Hopefully he's just the horse to take them to the next level, NZ too.

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If priced at $12,500 I think he is priced wrong for a purely staying horse.

Was originally no interest from studs in the stallion in terms of purchasing him a year ago at his prime (owners had unrealistic expectations), and after an abysmal last 12 months I'm sure the 'shine' would have went right off him.

Similar profile to Mongolian Khan (10k) , Derby winner and very good horse at 2000m + with some big wins but no form under 2000m in Australasian conditions a concern to me

Good luck to Brighthill, Hope he gets some support in terms of numbers but they may find it tough and hopefully he's a succesful stallion that carrys the Sir Tristram line. 

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So this is what he is....

As a two year old ran second over 1300m in the city from two starts. His first race was over 900m

First up as a three year old runs second over 1400m, then wins the Derby (VRC) after running second in the Geelong Classic (a Derby trial).

Sydney in the Autumn didn't really work for him but he did manage to run second to Volkstock n Barrell in the Rosehill Guineas (Gp1) and beating Hallowed Crown...over 2000m...not bad form.

He then won the Hill Stakes (2000m) and the WFA Turnbull Stakes (Gp1) over 2000m

After failing in the Melbourne Cup (his race record shows he's not a stayer), he raced in the Hong Kong Cup, before running 4th to Winx in the Chipping Norton (1600) before winning both the Australian Cup (Gp1) over 2000m (beating Rising Romance who was at the top of her game), before winning the BMW (Gp1).

Now if you'd have stopped right there, you'd have said that is a stallion profile of a horse that was most effective over 2000m, was mature enough as a three year old to win over the Derby distance in the spring (I actually like that more than winning over that distance in the autumn as it shows strength at an earlier stage), and good enough to mature properly to win at the classic distance as a 4 year old.

But they raced him on...and by that time he'd obviously had enough. For all of Chris Waller's genius talents as a trainer, this stallion was poorly managed in the latter part of his career...from a stallion's perspective.

Dam is by Flying Spur (leading stallion), has produced 2 group winners. Flying Spur is of course by Danehill (undisputed champion stallion), and Flying Spur is a Golden Slipper winner who has also produced champions including 5 Gp1 winning two year olds and 3 Guineas winners. To boot, a leading broodmare sire.

 Second dam is by Canny Lad...wasn't Redoute's Choice out of a Canny Lad mare as well? So Preferment's dam is bred on the same cross as Redoute's Choice. Canny lad was also a Golden Slipper winner and a very good sire. Just for good measure, the second dam produced a Villiers Stakes winner, which of course is a fast horse's race.

Then the 3rd dam is by Beau Sovereign by the champion Sovereign Edition. Beau Sovereign was a gorgeous horse, and a champion sire.The 3rd dam also produced 3 stakes winners including a Sallinger winner (Gp1 sprint)

So put all of that together, and just for good measure you can boast he's by Zabeel, and that at $190,000 as a yearling was a smashing looker, what have you got. An absolute bargain at $12,500 for a star stallion's profile who was very badly managed as a stallion race horse.

https://www.nzb.co.nz/sales/pedigree.cfm?sale_id=166&lot=36

Good on you Nick!!! Job well done

 

La Zip, talk, ADM and 1 other like this

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Berri, I agree with you 100%. Thank you for typing it all out, that which most of us already knew, but which some obviously didn't or had forgotten. Why cant he be as good as Savabeel? Both early maturing Zabeel's who excelled over 2000 m. 

 

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I think it's going to be a tough year for all these new stallions here in NZ.  I definitely agree Berri, he was absolutely trashed in regards to looking after his post-race career.  I would support but my main mare in by Flying Spur.  Good luck to the team at Brighthiils - absolute pleasure to deal with & If he gets the right mares, I'm sure they will run. 

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1 hour ago, Insider said:

Berri, I agree with you 100%. Thank you for typing it all out, that which most of us already knew, but which some obviously didn't or had forgotten. Why cant he be as good as Savabeel? Both early maturing Zabeel's who excelled over 2000 m. 

 

Savabeel was a winner and G1 placed at 2, was WFA placed at G1 level at 1400m at 3, and a Cox Plate winner at 3. 

On record Preferment has no Group form under 2000m,( 8 attempts at Group level under a mile for no placings), this is where I believe the two differ considerably.

There's no doubt he raced on to long which has affected his record.

But pedigree wise has plenty going on through the damline and has a very good page. Ticks a lot of boxes pedigree wise for sure.

Will he be well supported? Im not sure?, A lot of well credentialed 1st season/2nd season sires around. Tivaci/Turn Me Loose/Rageese/Mongolian Khan/Tarzino/Complacent/Contributer/Sweynesse/Puccini (similarly overraced when out of form)/Vanbrugh/Vespa

Is there enough mares around to give all these stallions a chance, where is Preferments support going to come from? 

 

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2 hours ago, Berri said:

 

 

 

But they raced him on...and by that time he'd obviously had enough. For all of Chris Waller's genius talents as a trainer, this stallion was poorly managed in the latter part of his career...from a stallion's perspective.

  

Absolutely agree here in the mid to later part of his career, you might be more in the loop ?, a year ago was the asking price just being to high the only reason of no interest from studs? Because he was clearly on the market .

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I think greed, average management and un-unified owners will guarantee that IF this stallion makes it, he will be a great sire. In a lot of ways, the blood of Preferment is better than Savabeel and if you think about the success of Savabeel, to a slightly lessor extent Octagonal and Reset, and a renaissance of the likes of Zed, then Zabeel has proven he can do it as a sire of sires. We must remember that Preferment is the last one.....just so happens on balance (type, pedigree and race record), he is one of the best chances for Zabeel. Let's hope so.

talk, La Zip and Breeder like this

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Just after looking at TB breeders page, 6 new stallions last year and 13 this year! Several options for High Chap, Encosta, Street Cry, different options Monsun, Authorised, add Zabeel, Lonhro, what a minefield for a broody owner!! The "crystal ball" question, which stallion is going to be the best value for money? Breeding to race, breeding to sell ??!! Go new or go proven?  Decisions decisions!!

 

 

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On ‎18‎/‎06‎/‎2017 at 8:37 AM, BruceL said:

If priced at $12,500 I think he is priced wrong for a purely staying horse.

Similar profile to Mongolian Khan (10k) , Derby winner and very good horse at 2000m + with some big wins but no form under 2000m in Australasian conditions a concern to me

Good luck to Brighthill, Hope he gets some support in terms of numbers but they may find it tough and hopefully he's a succesful stallion that carrys the Sir Tristram line. 

No disrespect intended to you Bruce or Mongolian Khan but given the record of the respective Sirelines and pedigrees Preferment looks cheap at only $2500 more than MK.

A son of Zabeel would have my vote over a son of HRE any day, especially given the horses relatively similar race records at 3 and 4.

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3 hours ago, fitzy said:

No disrespect intended to you Bruce or Mongolian Khan but given the record of the respective Sirelines and pedigrees Preferment looks cheap at only $2500 more than MK.

A son of Zabeel would have my vote over a son of HRE any day, especially given the horses relatively similar race records at 3 and 4.

Agree , I just stated Mongolian Khans fee , more made a point in saying they have the same type of profile. With similar race records at 3 and major 2400m race winners at 4.

Also both have no Group form under 2000m which is of huge concern for me when looking at a stallions chances in current times.

 

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So you wouldn't have stood Montjeu, Medaglio D'Oro, El Prado, Monsun just to name a few and there are plenty more? And to boot Sir Tristram wouldn't have been in our midst had you been the advisor to NZ breeding inc. This modern concept that a stallion has a race record that is totally influenced by needing to win at a shorter distance is utter crap. Many of these horses have natural speed but on type they are horses that will obviously run over a distance.

Let's get this out there....there is more money in staying races than sprinting races. There is more money bet on staying races than sprinting races. There are more race attendances for staying races than sprinting races. There are increased TV/ internet views on staying races than sprinting races.

So why the fuck are we being sucked into the concept that we need sprinting speed stallions at stud? There is absolutely no logic to that notion. In this country, if you have a stayer, don't race it in NZ because we no longer have a staying race program. Go to Australia where there is. Thank god there are still some people who understand that the stallion horse power in this country is in having some staying stallions.

And while I'm at it, I actually think that standing Preferment is an outstanding proposition. The last son of Zabeel (do I really need to say more), with his bloodlines and race record over 2000m, and on type....we should all be crawling over cut glass to make sure he gets a chance. For me, similarly to my comments re Iffraaj, Tavistock et al before they became known stallions, this horse is another real chance. A stallion has to be a type and in my humble opinion he has it.

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Just to point out Preferment is not the only new son of Zabeel to stand this season, Verdi (Zabeel x Miss Opera) half to Sir Slick and Puccini is standing down south. He looked like he was going to be a promising type on the track until he succumb to a tendon injury.

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1 hour ago, Berri said:

So you wouldn't have stood Montjeu, Medaglio D'Oro, El Prado, Monsun just to name a few and there are plenty more? And to boot Sir Tristram wouldn't have been in our midst had you been the advisor to NZ breeding inc. This modern concept that a stallion has a race record that is totally influenced by needing to win at a shorter distance is utter crap. Many of these horses have natural speed but on type they are horses that will obviously run over a distance.

 

Should have clarified that I am talking stallions that have raced in AUS/NZ in current times that don't have Group form under 2000m. Ie: Mongolian Khan/Preferment.

Never said they can't be successful , it would just be a concern for me.

NZ broodmares leave Derby/Oaks horses by sprinting/miler performed stallions ie: Tavistock/Iffraaj/Makfi etc 

What current successful NZ stallions that raced in AUS/NZ have no blacktype form at less than 2000m?

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None In the top 20 at the moment but the real question is how many group one winning Australasian raced stayers have recently gone to stud in NZ? I can't think of one but then again I am forgetful. But I suppose I'm saying that if they haven't been going to stud, how can there be a presence. I can't believe it. Since we've been importing sprinter/ milers, our breeding has not been able to compete with the Aussies. Sure we get the odd good horse, but not at the frequency or consistency that we did in the past.

Not long ago in the UK (and here) everyone was convinced that English Derby winners didn't have a place at stud any more because they weren't fast enough due to the "modern breed" needing more speed. Then along came Galileo (a failure downunder), Montjeu (need I say more) and High Chaparral (shame he died early). That blew that notion out of the water with all horses capable of producing a nice two year old.

The reason why the Derby is a breed shaping race is that a horse that wins that race must be mature at the beginning of its three year old career. That's why running the NZ Derby in March is bollocks. We need to know who that really good three year old colt is as an early 3yo. Here in New Zealand that was lost because we can't/ never did/ weren't capable of getting enough colts to the classic race. We gelded everything. Now a colt is worth a lot so the game has potentially changed....are we brave enough to change it back again. If you don't get racing purists making the rules of the game, how can you get racing going properly. Just imagine if you said that the head of team NZ was to be an accountant, the head of NZRB an ex policeman and that the players in the boat were not sailors. We'd be fucked in the America's Cup. For heavens sake, those blokes have everyone in NZ buzzing. Why can't anyone see what you have to do in this industry to get it right. This stallion caper is just another example of inadequate thought in respect of horses and the future of NZ. BruceL....you are wrong. We need more stayers, both on the stallions and mares side, but the recipe needs to include early maturing stayers..

My real fear is the depressing reduction of potency in the NZ brand. We used to have 4 stallions in the top ten on the Aussie sires lists. right now we have not one in the top 20.....NOT ONE!!!

Is that not a wake up call?!?! So what have the Aussies done?....they've bought into the concept of standing more stayers at stud. Over the years that blood will come through and nail us.

So to Preferment...is he a good chance at $12,500? It would be very tough to go past him as a chance.

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As I said before I am not saying they can't be successful, so I am clearly not wrong 

Have just made a point that it is of concern that these stayers have no Group form under 2000m (a fact) and as you mention the introduction of more stayers to stand at stud will be interesting and gives them a chance.

Mongolian Khan was well supported and Preferment may be also, I hope they are successfull on the racetrack and commercially, but currently in AUS/NZ there is not much evidence of these stallions being around/successful, I agree with your points hopefully this changes long term

Not saying they can't be successful , 

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Berri, you have some interesting points on this, and you make points to back your claims which I like. I agree that breeding a good stayer encompaces breeding a stayer to a stayer and we should be promoting that considering that our DNA is staying. However, the game is changing somewhat, there is a desire at yearling time for 1600 to 2000 meter horses from NZ. Now, people are getting into the mix that if they have a staying mare that they should quicken it up with a sprinter and then they will have that mix right to make an appealing yearling. Maybe logic is wrong? but when Joe Bloggs the agent comes to buy a yearling at the sales he wants to see the sexy sires from the draft, nothing that will take 2400 meters as a 3yo to win. 

Also do you think the game has changed a bit? More robust horses needed? You look at rugby players for instance, I dont think there is a chance Terry Wright would have a place in the All Blacks anymore (no disrespect to him, as he was amazing in the day) but the game has moved on, you need a monster on the wing now such as Savea, Naholo, North etc, . Do you think the same has happened with racing. More durable horses are required? Just going back to your analogies or am I way off. 

 

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The game has changed a lot!! No kidding!!!

We've shortened the distances of our races to such an extent that here in NZ we don't have a stayers program anymore. Thank god the Wellington Cup was put back to 3200m but that is but a fart in the wind. If I owned a stayer it wouldn't be racing in NZ. Australia has the program. We don't have 1600m + races for 2 yo's. Why not? We don't have 2400-3200m races for 3yo's that aren't stakes races. Why not? We don't have a stakes structure to support staying races. Why not?

It's all about incompetence. People who don't know about racing aren't running racing. Forget the poncey bloodstock agent who is only worried about fashion and turning a quick spin. The faster the horse comes up, the quicker the next one can be bought. They are sheep but there is the odd good one in amongst them. 

As for robust horses, that's not sprinters...they're stayers. As for breeding,,,get a stayer and put it to a stayer and you can still get a fast horse. Tavistock is one of them....By Montjeu, from a mare who is by a Derby winner, who's second dam is by High Line (a stayer). What do you get? a sprinter miler who throws horses with a wicked turn of foot who stay. Get a sprinter and put it to a sprinter and you rarely get a stayer. Get a stayer and put it over a sprinter, and more often than not you get nothing.

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You make some good points Berri.  But one of the major reasons there are no NZ sires in the top-20 is our stallions don't have the runners there compared to the Aus stallions who are serving massive broodmare numbers. Snitzel and Sebring have had over 300 runners in Aus this season - Iffraaj has had 27 !

But I totally agree we need lots more 1400-1600m 2yr old races and decent staying races with decent stakes. Not Chalmers Handicaps for $30k.

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You would think that a group of smart intelligent people (which do exist) would join forces to enable a collaborative approach to this puzzle. That is both from a horse/ stud perspective and a governance/ racing industry structure perspective. Closed door deals and inept decision making needs to cease as we can't afford it any more. We have now got less than 4000 mares breeding. We're about to experience a catatonic race betting event because we don't have the horse population. That's only part of the issue in NZ in respect of the sires tables in Aussie. Win a Melbourne Cup, and a sire gets into the top twenty. Add a Derby, a Sydney Cup and a Queen Elizabeth, and you've got a leader. The question is how do we do that? The second part is making sure NZ trainers and owners get that Aussie money. How do we do that? If that happens, Aussie is funding the NZ industry. These are all basic questions, much like the stayers program in NZ.

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We are sort of getting on a different tangent here.

Good on Brighthill (although I have not seen an official press release)  for acquiring  a multiple group 1 winner out of a flying spur mare, . Probably the next best son of Zabeel( to savabeel). Should suit multiple mares and regardless of how poorly he was managed during his career, he is a derby winner who trained on as a 4yo and 5yo and should be well received at a modest fee of $12,500. If he stood in Aus you would think he would be at $27,500 as thats where they normally start....

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Are Brighthill being a bit slack in announcing that Preferment is on his way ?

Get the publicity/advertising going! Got to be sharp, hes a relative late announcement and there is plenty of competition around, also stallion registers already out etc.

Hopefully he's the one that can get Brighthill going, lovely people who haven't had a lot of luck with stallions that have stood at their farm.

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