Box Seat: What to do with the Jewels?

[Happy Sunrise 554]

Mr Guerin wants to put Jewels Day out for tender to anyone. Big events should be supported by councils who can put money towards it (Rakaia Council lol) he says. $50 000 up front.

He says the atmosphere at Ashburton was flat as it is not a great viewing track so it should be open to any trotting club.

The Jewels is business he says. Sorry, Mr Guerin but I noticed several motels with their vacancy signs up on the day of the Jewels. I severely doubt the economic boost to Ashburton would be noticeable. Most would be in and out on the day due to its proximity to Christchurch. I would love to know if any of the Box Seat team stayed a night in Ashburton.

So I suppose the question is, which clubs in NZ would tender for the opportunity to have the Jewels and have the support of the local council to front up money as well?

 

[globederby12 1,495]

Why oh why do people want to reinvent the wheel. It's an iconic Harness event  held at a brilliant track. Mr Guerin has said it was flat. Flat for fecking who?. The champagne brigade?, the corporates who see it as a means to make money?, . What about the    people behind the whole event. The horse owners, trainers , etc, was it flat for them? . What a load of utter bullshit. Hey let's advise the Americans to take the Little Brown Jug on the road Michael. It's a bit flat. Pphhh 

[Toblerone 242]

1 hour ago, globederby12 said:

Why oh why do people want to reinvent the wheel. It's an iconic Harness event  held at a brilliant track. Mr Guerin has said it was flat. Flat for fecking who?. The champagne brigade?, the corporates who see it as a means to make money?, . What about the    people behind the whole event. The horse owners, trainers , etc, was it flat for them? . What a load of utter bullshit. Hey let's advise the Americans to take the Little Brown Jug on the road Michael. It's a bit flat. Pphhh 

I am by no means a Guerin apologist, but I was on course on Saturday and it WAS flat, and for those on course it was a very poor viewing spectacle due to the size of the track and the distance from the grandstand to the winning post. You guys are being foolhardy suggesting it shouldn't be considered for other locations. 

[We're Doomed 4,855]

Can't see Kaikoura being a possibility for many reasons; one being it is pretty much a jump quick and lead all the way track which is hardly great for competitive racing, also it is so far away from anywhere.

The big problem with the Jewels is that it only appeals to real enthusiasts, the time of the year doesn't help either. It doesn't have a broad based event appeal like Trotting Cup day, Westpot at Xmas, or even  Kaikoura Cup day. Those events appeal to the general public and not just racing enthusiasts.

Racing as an event these days generally has to be in the summer time so people can dress up and sit in the sun. The potential market for something focussed purely on the racing itself is very small; especially in a relatively hick town like Ashburton in the middle of winter.

[hsvman 294]

I do like his idea of having it based on a calendar year stakes earned so you can't race in summer months 

 

[hynie 4]

Maybe jewels could be improved but they ain't broken, Mick said he only knows Auckland harness maybe he should fix the Taylor Mile and the Messenger. ?

[lamour 673]

14 hours ago, globederby12 said:

Why oh why do people want to reinvent the wheel. It's an iconic Harness event  held at a brilliant track. Mr Guerin has said it was flat. Flat for fecking who?. The champagne brigade?, the corporates who see it as a means to make money?, . What about the    people behind the whole event. The horse owners, trainers , etc, was it flat for them? . What a load of utter bullshit. Hey let's advise the Americans to take the Little Brown Jug on the road Michael. It's a bit flat. Pphhh 

The only thing wrong with your post Globe is that I didn't say if first. 

I was on course and thought the there was an immediate buzz when I entered the course. I think the whole concept is great and I wish people would stop trying to tinker with it.  Much better atmosphere than you would get at Addington or Alex Park.

Sometimes we should just be grateful for having such a great event and enjoy it.

If any improvement should be made I think having a maximum 6 across the front line could be beneficial as those drawn wide were at a definite disadvantage.

Of course that would mean maybe a field of 11

 

 

[tasman man 11 979]

11 hours ago, Flagship uberalles said:

You could say the same about cambridge jump and lead trail scenario, kaikoura would always have the crowd, beats ashburton with the gallops track in the way, what about nelson good fair track? Pitty no hutt park anymore..,.forbury other than auck, add, ashb, camb...don't know what the patronage is anymore at forb but has hosted interdoms in the past.

One of the big challenges for some of these tracks would be things yet to be discussed.....distance to a horse population as well as people population.

Some of the tracks suggested barely suitable......up to this year many argued that draws were crucial yet the results suggested otherwise as from Day 1 the best horses have generally come thru....sure the odd #1 draw has hugely given a horse an advantage especially at cambridge.

Some tracks are flat and have no camber so racing not so good e.g. Kaikoura who race on a  public holiday in a province where little on plus quite close to Chch [pre quakes]

But facilities the biggest issue.......many are antiquated / unacceptable. Totally for a showcase event ,even tho tents etc possible 

Horse facilities another issue as unlike current two venues ,other places would require travel before the big day.

The big one is catering ,many would not handle the requirements.

Forbury may have hosted the Intercoms but that was 1965 , no chance of a repeat today !

I originally pushed for Nelson but they would struggle .Originally it was intended the event would be taken around the country but why would clubs upgrade for a one-off ?

One day Ashburton could be ruined by adverse weather...as could any venue....the first year the track was covered in snow on the prior Tuesday.

[Sickopunter 403]

I agree with Mick. Why not Southland some year? Especially if they "want it" the most. Perhaps HRNZ could come up with a list of tracks that would be suitable and consider factors such as accomodation and then let them tender accordingly. Obviously this could be somewhat controversial but so what. Having these events every year at the same place doesn't widen the appeal of the day and will run the risk of what has happened to Wellington with the sevens.

[We're Doomed 4,855]

15 minutes ago, Sickopunter said:

I agree with Mick. Why not Southland some year? Especially if they "want it" the most. Perhaps HRNZ could come up with a list of tracks that would be suitable and consider factors such as accomodation and then let them tender accordingly. Obviously this could be somewhat controversial but so what. Having these events every year at the same place doesn't widen the appeal of the day and will run the risk of what has happened to Wellington with the sevens.

Southland gets bloody cold in the winter and the cost to get there would be horrendous. Once AirNZ hears there is any demand at all it would be way more expensive to fly Auck to Invercargill than Auck to Perth.

[eljay 1,719]

1 hour ago, Sickopunter said:

I agree with Mick. Why not Southland some year? Especially if they "want it" the most. Perhaps HRNZ could come up with a list of tracks that would be suitable and consider factors such as accomodation and then let them tender accordingly. Obviously this could be somewhat controversial but so what. Having these events every year at the same place doesn't widen the appeal of the day and will run the risk of what has happened to Wellington with the sevens.

Reminds me of West Australia & the Inters.     Perth interested, got the event, but lost the whole idea of the occasion - Inter Dominion rivalry.      New Zealand now all but lost interest, and slowly but surely the other Aussie states following suit.     We are lucky here as far as Jewels concerned, Ashburton & Cambridge are not really isolated from the rest of the country.     As already said in respect of the Jewels, it's not broken so leave it alone as it is.

[LongOwner 217]

19 hours ago, We're Doomed said:

Can't see Kaikoura being a possibility for many reasons; one being it is pretty much a jump quick and lead all the way track which is hardly great for competitive racing, also it is so far away from anywhere.

The big problem with the Jewels is that it only appeals to real enthusiasts, the time of the year doesn't help either. It doesn't have a broad based event appeal like Trotting Cup day, Westpot at Xmas, or even  Kaikoura Cup day. Those events appeal to the general public and not just racing enthusiasts.

Racing as an event these days generally has to be in the summer time so people can dress up and sit in the sun. The potential market for something focussed purely on the racing itself is very small; especially in a relatively hick town like Ashburton in the middle of winter.

Re model track with camber and mile racing start programmed for march - what an international advertisement for all NZ not just racing . Central govt could part fund like NZ golf .

Best man wins tender for 5 years . The jewels is so far short of  self funding it is not sustainable - get real and get commercial.

[Basil 333]

This is an interesting one.  I've been to every Ashburton-based Jewels since inception, and while I agree there's no longer quite the 'buzz' there was on the very first occasion, it's a long way from that to concluding the day is now 'flat'.  I suspect Mr Guerin spent too much of the day inside his sealed-off broadcasting caravan.

That aside, the other options seem to have all the supposed disadvantages of Ashburton, plus others to boot.  Methven would be great, but I doubt if holding the Jewels on grass is the look we're after.  Rangiora and Mot are also grand courses, but both have all-weather tracks inside a grass one, and neither track is up to the standard of Ashburton.  Ditto Nelson and Winton.  Wyndham is a possibility, but it's a long way to go for the 80% of horses that are trained in Canterbury --- at a time when it's getting harder and harder for owners to stay in the black, would we really want to saddle so many of them with significant additional costs?  

In the NI, there are even fewer options.  It's either Cambridge or Alex Park (unless one thinks starting on a bend at Palmy is viable!)

The only change that I think might merit consideration is reducing the number of days in the NI to once every 3 or 4 years.  Over the last two years, NI stables have provided 69 of the 227 starters, i.e., about 30%.  That doesn't warrant hosting it every second year, at least not if the objective is to make the day attractive to owners by minimising the costs they face.  So I'd say go to Cambridge once every 3 years.  Whether the extra SI year would then be held at Ashburton or elsewhere is up for grabs, although I'd suggest that moving it far out of Canterbury would, at least as far as owners are concerned, be potentially a case of exchanging the frying pan for the fire.  Although personally I'd be quite happy to find an excuse for a weekend trip to Southland (or Nelson if the road gets fixed).

[Happy Sunrise 554]

The Jewels should be at Auckland sometimes over a sprint distance. Forget the mile.

The harness game needs an identity boost in Auckland.

[chelseacol 2,488]

re the atmosphere - average day weather wise. Lots of people in marquees (there must have been 250 in the one we were in - there was at least one more).Not sure you could expect much more in winter etc etc

[osceola 176]

My vote is sunny Wyndham 

[lamour 673]

12 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

The Jewels should be at Auckland sometimes over a sprint distance. Forget the mile.

The harness game needs an identity boost in Auckland.

Can't agree with you at all HS.   The ATC has plenty of premier meetings they could use to promote the identity of the industry in Auckland if they wish.

The Auckland City Council is never going to put money into stakes sponsorship to secure the event for Auckland while so much needs to be spent on roads and public transport issues. Holding the Jewels in Auckland is not going to make any impression on their economy with so many other events happening all the time.

Beware of making any changes to the Jewels that water down the concept.

[Fartoomuch 1,376]

14 hours ago, Happy Sunrise said:

The Jewels should be at Auckland sometimes over a sprint distance. Forget the mile.

The harness game needs an identity boost in Auckland.

Well then best ATC gets off its ass and uses the money earned from land sales to boost its identity. Nobody elses business but theirs

[rangi 73]

The facilities here at ATC would be the best for everyone for the event

The viewing on tv of Ashburton is good but attending Cambridge in the past it does have good viewing being so close to the track you really feel part of the racing and haven't we been blessed with great weather

It seems to be working fine at present

[Turny 1,224]

ATC just would not work IMHO - Ashburton with its rural feel is super - but I do think the Jewels need a lift - been to every Ashburton Jewels but this year it just lacked something, just can't put my finger on it but some magic was missing

[Happy Sunrise 554]

On 6/10/2017 at 9:46 AM, lamour said:

The ATC has plenty of premier meetings they could use to promote the identity of the industry in Auckland if they wish

True but maybe they need all the help they can get. The population of Auckland would suggest future owners, participants and punters need to be exposed to as much quality harness racing as possible.

Cambridge was great last year. Much better atmosphere than Ashburton has ever had.

. Ashburton, while having a top track, is a soulless, cold and poor viewing course with crap facilities. It would rank as one of the least appealing courses in the South Island.

 

[lamour 673]

39 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

True but maybe they need all the help they can get. The population of Auckland would suggest future owners, participants and punters need to be exposed to as much quality harness racing as possible.

Cambridge was great last year. Much better atmosphere than Ashburton has ever had.

. Ashburton, while having a top track, is a soulless, cold and poor viewing course with crap facilities. It would rank as one of the least appealing courses in the South Island.

 

If i was in charge of the ATC I would put the Great Northern Derby stake up to $500,000.  That would make it the richest derby in Australasia and attract Aussie horses.

That could then be promoted as a classic  Aussie/NZ grudge match and attract media attention.  

I haven;t been to Cambridge Jewels but contrary to what some have said I thought there was a buzz on track at Ashburton this year. The grass galloping  track was opened up for those who wanted to get close to the action. A number of hospitality tents also added to the atmosphere.  I am sure some improvements could be made but all in all I

The weather was also noticeably better than in Christchurch..

  Don't really like the viewing at Alex Park either as stands are at the winning post which means the view is partly  head on coming down the straight which I personally don't like

 

[lamour 673]

1 minute ago, lamour said:

If i was in charge of the ATC I would put the Great Northern Derby stake up to $500,000.  That would make it the richest derby in Australasia and attract Aussie horses.

That could then be promoted as a classic  Aussie/NZ grudge match and attract media attention.  

I haven;t been to Cambridge Jewels but contrary to what some have said I thought there was a buzz on track at Ashburton this year. The grass galloping  track was opened up for those who wanted to get close to the action. A number of hospitality tents also added to the atmosphere.  I am sure some improvements could be made but all in all I

The weather was also noticeably better than in Christchurch..

  Don't really like the viewing at Alex Park either as stands are at the winning post which means the view is partly  head on coming down the straight which I personally don't like

 

All in all I think Ashburton is an ideal venue

[craigosz 287]

On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 10:28 PM, osceola said:

My vote is sunny Wyndham 

I agree Alan......there or Winton both very good Harness tracks.

[Happy Sunrise 554]

2 hours ago, lamour said:

All in all I think Ashburton is an ideal venue

Nothing beats sitting amongst the bird droppings in the stand.