RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
45yearsofharness

Inquiry?

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On 1 June 2017 at 4:50 PM, Swede said:

From the All Stars website:

Natalie On Waikiki Beach Winter Cup Inquiry

We had a meeting with the Stewards on Wednesday over the Winter Cup inquiry involving Waikiki Beach and Piccadilly Princess and I can say that the case against us for my drive shifting out to allow Mark room with Piccadilly Princess, something I never intended to do. The Stewards accepted the points we made in support of the case. I have pleaded guilty to allowing Waikiki Beach to drift but it was not anything to do with where Mark's horse was.

The head on film, which will be shown on Trackside at a later date, shows Waikiki Beach drifting down early in the straight and when he started it again I corrected him out. There was no communication with Mark. I had a wrap around my head and a beanie as well as other headgear and I wasn't going to hear anything anyway ! I certainly didn't hear anything about moving out. The stewards, who were prepared to give me a full and fair hearing, agreed with my submissions.  I was letting thehorse wander a bit but they seemed to want to all night and Tim said his horse moved as well. 

I am keen to see the film shown as soon as possible because I would hate anyone to think we were doing things like that.  We pride ourselves that we treat all our owners equally on raceday and that is the way it should be and with us always has been. So it is a relief that the officials saw it the same way we did and will not proceed with that aspect of the inquiry.

 

 

NZ Metro TC - Friday, 19th May 2017
Race 6 - IAIN McMILLAN MEMORIAL WINTER CUP (HANDICAP PACE)
Stewards have concluded their investigation into the handling of WAIKIKI BEACH by driver N Rasmussen in the Iain McMillan Memorial Winter Cup at NZMTC on the 19th of May. 
Ms Rasmussen was questioned regarding WAIKIKI BEACH being shifted wider on the track passing the 100 metres which enabled PICCADILLY PRINCESSto gain a run through to her inside. 
Ms Rasmussen explained that her runner had shifted outwards in the early stages of the run home for two reasons. One being that the lead horse, CLASSIE BRIGADE (B Orange) had shifted outwards and dictated her wider, and secondly, her horse had drifted away from the murphy blind on the near side. She said this had created a gap of more than one cart width between herself and CLASSIE BRIGADE's sulky. It was Ms Rasmussen's belief that Mr M Purdon(PICCADILLY PRINCESS) had become aware of this opportunity and taken his runner towards, and then into, that run. Throughout this time she had allowed her runner to shift inwards and subsequently close that run that had been available causing her to become poorly positioned near that runner's front legs. Ms Rasmussen added that she had then heard calling to her inside consistent with a driver being placed in restricted room. It was at this time she said, that she pulled her horse outwards to avoid causing any further interference.
Mr M Purdon was queried in relation to this incident and advised that at the entrance to the top of the straight he had become aware of a gap which had been created between WAIKIKI BEACH and CLASSIE BRIGADE. Mr Purdon said he angled his runner towards that room and felt he was established when WAIKIKI BEACH shifted inwards causing him some crowding. He added that it was at this time he appealed to Ms Rasmussen to relieve the pressure, to which she immediately did.
In assessing this incident Stewards gave consideration to the explanation of Ms Rasmussen and the evidence of Mr M Purdon and in doing so made the following determinations;
WAIKIKI BEACH was taken outwards in the early stages of the run home by CLASSIE BRIGADE. There was sufficient room (more than one cart width) between those two runners for a lengthy period prior to this incident, Mr Purdon and PICCADILLY PRINCESS were entitled to that run and had in fact become established in the run, WAIKIKI BEACH then shifted in under the urgings of Ms Rasmussen and closed that gap, Mr Purdon had to restrain his horse costing it momentum and ground. When assessing all factors, including the requirement for PICCADILLY PRINCESS to obtain a certain amount of stake money to become eligible for the Harness Jewels, Stewards were not satisfied that the actions of Ms Rasmussen were improper in that they were intended to benefit the stable runner. Notwithstanding this, Ms Rasmussen has been issued with, and pled guilty to a charge of careless driving (Rule 869(3)(b)) alleging that she allowed her runner to shift inwards throughout the straight and cause interference to PICCADILLY PRINCESS. A fine of $450 was imposed on Ms Rasmussenby the JCA.

 

Some inconsistacy here as in "I wasn't going to hear anything anyway" ??

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Reading the summary I think the stipes have dealt with it well. Good to see  ms Rasmussen was treated the same as anyone else would have been in this case, actually a wee bit surprising given her profile.. They were probably never going to prove anything serious, but at least they were seen to be doing something.

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2 hours ago, what a post said:

Reading the summary I think the stipes have dealt with it well. Good to see  ms Rasmussen was treated the same as anyone else would have been in this case, actually a wee bit surprising given her profile.. They were probably never going to prove anything serious, but at least they were seen to be doing something.

I agree but my point was N said she could not hear anything in her post on the all stars site, then M said He "appeal" and she moved out to give him room??

So there was definitely communication between them, which she denied hearing anything.

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Read allstars site re - jewels review - whining again about handicapping system which made them loose the last race ! 

Jesus they won 4 and still whine - my ears are getting sore because of Allstars continual whine - been going on for months.

Never did find out whether Natalie gave Addington a big serve because Motu Premier was put in the Summer Cup - that was a summer whine now winter whinge.

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1 hour ago, LongOwner said:

Read allstars site re - jewels review - whining again about handicapping system which made them loose the last race ! 

Jesus they won 4 and still whine - my ears are getting sore because of Allstars continual whine - been going on for months.

Never did find out whether Natalie gave Addington a big serve because Motu Premier was put in the Summer Cup - that was a summer whine now winter whinge.

 I have not read the all star website comments about lack of  suitable racing effecting their top 3y olds performances but if that is what they are saying then it is just another example of fake news. They can say it as much as they want, mickey g likes repeating it but they are talking rubbish.     Point in case.       More the better has had one run in a rating race against the older horses. Remember all the moaning from mickey g  about it being not fair for him.  Well what happened in that race.  Heaven rocks won, More the better ran 2nd, The orange agent and Christen me  ran 3rd and 4th.     Given that ultimate machete is better than More the better there is no doubt the all star 3y olds are very very competitive against the best.   The truth is what the the all stars want are races in which their best 3 y olds can have some easy kills without over extending themselves. They don't want to have to run their best against their best, even if they are all competitive. Their owners of multiple horses don't want it.  I don't blame them.  But enough of the fake news about the rating system.         When is anyone in the media or administrators ever going to say that. If they were a race run short then why did they not run in that 6 horse sprint race they had at addington about 3 weeks ago. Was it because they wanted Piccadilly princess to earn enough money? Understandable but the  new system is there for the greater good.  I don't blame the all stars for being pro active in protecting their owners interests, just they are creating a smoke screen when they do it.

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12 minutes ago, what a post said:

 I have not read the all star website comments about lack of  suitable racing effecting their top 3y olds performances but if that is what they are saying then it is just another example of fake news. They can say it as much as they want, mickey g likes repeating it but they are talking rubbish.     Point in case.       More the better has had one run in a rating race against the older horses. Remember all the moaning from mickey g  about it being not fair for him.  Well what happened in that race.  Heaven rocks won, More the better ran 2nd, The orange agent and Christen me  ran 3rd and 4th.     Given that ultimate machete is better than More the better there is no doubt the all star 3y olds are very very competitive against the best.   The truth is what the the all stars want are races in which their best 3 y olds can have some easy kills without over extending themselves. They don't want to have to run their best against their best, even if they are all competitive. Their owners of multiple horses don't want it.  I don't blame them.  But enough of the fake news about the rating system.         When is anyone in the media or administrators ever going to say that. If they were a race run short then why did they not run in that 6 horse sprint race they had at addington about 3 weeks ago. Was it because they wanted Piccadilly princess to earn enough money? Understandable but the  new system is there for the greater good.  I don't blame the all stars for being pro active in protecting their owners interests, just they are creating a smoke screen when they do it.

On the button !

They are whinging to protect their own - nothing else - it gets tiresome.

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for me it comes down to straight out common TRUST.. I just don't trust them to admit what they did was underhanded...

I've been in a court were I told things the way I wanted to.. as do others.. normally the judges see through  crap... but being  honest here we are talking

stewards  as a small punter I feel are blinded  or one eyed ...   and  their ruling for me is not   justice.

 

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2 hours ago, LongOwner said:

Read allstars site re - jewels review - whining again about handicapping system which made them loose the last race ! 

Jesus they won 4 and still whine - my ears are getting sore because of Allstars continual whine - been going on for months.

Never did find out whether Natalie gave Addington a big serve because Motu Premier was put in the Summer Cup - that was a summer whine now winter whinge.

When it is all boiled down, the closest they got in the last race was second. Perhaps, out trained and driven, and underestimated the winner.

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For crying out loud. They have 3/4 of the country's best horses in their own back yard, so if they can't organise their own "race like" workouts to get horses ready to race, then maybe they aren't as good a trainers as they'd have us believe they are!

To make matters even more shameful, by blaming the handicapping system for their defeat, he's belittling his own brothers effort in winning the race - a man who has operated under the exact same handicapping system for considerably longer!

It would appear that the All Stars team now think they are bigger than the game!

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1 hour ago, Double R said:

When it is all boiled down, the closest they got in the last race was second. Perhaps, out trained and driven, and underestimated the winner.

They were beaten by a better one in the last race, he showed great gate speed and worked hard in the early burn, and yes he got a nice trail but certainly earn't it, no excuses for the opposition in my book.

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Stipe's Report

On 6/3/2017 at 10:19 PM, 45yearsofharness said:

Ms Rasmussen added that she had then heard calling to her inside consistent with a driver being placed in restricted room.

 

On 6/3/2017 at 10:19 PM, 45yearsofharness said:

He added that it was at this time he appealed to Ms Rasmussen to relieve the pressure, to which she immediately did.

Allstars Stable

On 6/3/2017 at 10:19 PM, 45yearsofharness said:

There was no communication with Mark. I had a wrap around my head and a beanie as well as other headgear and I wasn't going to hear anything anyway ! I certainly didn't hear anything about moving out.

As pointed out by 45. The stipes just got lead down the garden path.

A lawyer would have a field day with this contradictory crap.

The stipes should drag Rasmussen in and say 'what is with these 2 stories'?

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may be we should restrict the  purdon/Rasmussen barn to only having one horse in each jewels race

now I know that would be totally unfair but really all we the people want to see is the best okay they could put several of their

horses in each race and  one would/could think they are the best on offer.

like I said  in an earlier posting, for me it comes down to trust.. well call me old school.  I still have not moved on/got over

BLUE MAGIC.

I am not saying that this is the case this time, no,no.no that would be wrong.. when I see a P/R horse running I either don't bet or I look

for something at big odds that would be a boil over.. yep..i'd rather donate  a $2  coin to the tab than back one otf theirs.

I am not saying I do not respect mark . Christ his hole family have been great to me  betting wise for decades.

but I like to see owners, trainers and drivers do their best with what they have and be honest and up front when they stuff up.

I am sorry but I have not seen this in this case..   it has been well and truly sugar coated..

it gave me great pleasure seeing jack's legend win on Saturday, and with style.   shows me that some of the smaller stables can compete with the all stars

ms  Rasmussen, it takes a big man to admit he/she  stuffed up.   you really want to try it some day :)

 

.

 

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Why restrict them to one runner per race, if there good enough to buy get given the best horses why penalties them. You said you haven't gotten over the blue magic saga but remember he never produced a positive for blue magic he simply went to the stipes and told all his owner look he's used it a few and will cop what ever penalty is given to him even tho had he fought it with no positive he could not have been charged. 

They got beaten fair and square in the last by a great drive from zac , however they couldve easily set the race up and have Natalie hand up to mark down the back and put zac 3back the fence and have the lead trail with there best two chances but they didn't maybe they  underestimated zacs horse or maybe just the fact they felt they they could win it with trying dirty team tactics. 

Spankems race they could've easily had mark hand up the front to dexter and have another runner of theirs come around and soften dexter up but yet again they didn't you could try and say mark sacrificed spankem leaving it set up for the swoopers but that's drawer a long bow as yet again even tho he parked dexter he still beat him home and only just got caught late. 

They drive  to give there horses the best chance of earning top dollar, they don't drive to sacrifice one for the better of another as (Geoff small used to ) 

They have the luxury which is earned by thier record to have people buy and send them horses who in another stable would be the stables star and horse that would be wrapped in cotton will, yet as they have /get offered so many good horses they can pick and choose which ones they want to train . 

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Sorry hsvman but they drive for a stable win not an individual win and as we all saw a couple of weeks ago, they do it rather well. In the real world I would like to think that in the 2 cases where you suggest they could have driven differently for the stable, they were on a warning from the stipes?  But more than likely the stipes were too busy planning their Xmas party!

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7 minutes ago, hsvman said:

Why restrict them to one runner per race, if there good enough to buy get given the best horses why penalties them. You said you haven't gotten over the blue magic saga but remember he never produced a positive for blue magic he simply went to the stipes and told all his owner look he's used it a few and will cop what ever penalty is given to him even tho had he fought it with no positive he could not have been charged. 

They got beaten fair and square in the last by a great drive from zac , however they couldve easily set the race up and have Natalie hand up to mark down the back and put zac 3back the fence and have the lead trail with there best two chances but they didn't maybe they  underestimated zacs horse or maybe just the fact they felt they they could win it with trying dirty team tactics. 

Spankems race they could've easily had mark hand up the front to dexter and have another runner of theirs come around and soften dexter up but yet again they didn't you could try and say mark sacrificed spankem leaving it set up for the swoopers but that's drawer a long bow as yet again even tho he parked dexter he still beat him home and only just got caught late. 

They drive  to give there horses the best chance of earning top dollar, they don't drive to sacrifice one for the better of another as (Geoff small used to ) 

They have the luxury which is earned by thier record to have people buy and send them horses who in another stable would be the stables star and horse that would be wrapped in cotton will, yet as they have /get offered so many good horses they can pick and choose which ones they want to train . 

I have never said restrict starters , suggested they are average trainers - the opposite- but am sick of the whinging.

Every trainer accepts which race  the horse gets put in - shifted out of - , does not accept their horses running like dudgeon cars with no apology, has the stipes running scared , blue magic history then to top it off blames the handicapping system for not winning the last on jewels day .

They took over Addington for a whole morning a week before the jewels for a private race meeting and still whine .

How much were the track fees charged by Addington and did everyone else get given the opportunity ?

i think box set should ask Addington what was the invoice sent for exclusive use of the track and stables .

The stable whines and gets favoured treatment from stipes and tracks .

Wonder how the connections of Jacks Legend and particularly the trainer ( older brother) feels about the excuses by P.R. when their horse won fair and square .

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So the other week we saw the devils own sit parked and make the leader run along . She still beats the leader home well and truly runs 3rd  .

Saturday we see alta maestro sit park and make the leader run and pretty much ruin his chances and finish well beaten midfield . What's the difference in the two drives?  Was dexter out to just ruin the favorites /leaders chance aswell. And because his stable mate didn't win and he dropped of of contention on the 2nd favorite it's ok because he's not a purdon runner? 

The only difference in the two drive is in the first one the attacker beat the leader home. In the second case it was the attacker who was made to look ordinary . 

However I see both races as good competitive races . And would rather people chance there arm, if both races if the parked horse just sits up and let the leaders jog around and sprint home both leaders probly win but then everyone complains how boring racing in when the leaders just walk and round and no one puts their horses in the races .

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2 minutes ago, LongOwner said:

I have never said restrict starters , suggested they are average trainers - the opposite- but am sick of the whinging.

Every trainer accepts which race  the horse gets put in - shifted out of - , does not accept their horses running like dudgeon cars with no apology, has the stipes running scared , blue magic history then to top it off blames the handicapping system for not winning the last on jewels day .

They took over Addington for a whole morning a week before the jewels for a private race meeting and still whine .

How much were the track fees charged by Addington and did everyone else get given the opportunity ?

i think box set should ask Addington what was the invoice sent for exclusive use of the track and stables .

The stable whines and gets favoured treatment from stipes and tracks .

Wonder how the connections of Jacks Legend and particularly the trainer ( older brother) feels about the excuses by P.R. when their horse won fair and square .

Yet they let mark jones and other trainers if they wanted to  join in those private workouts aswell also they allowed full coverage to trackside to fil, and time those workouts . Any trainer can ask alexandra park if they want to have a few work on the track before a pemier meeting and the club will allowed it if time suits (with construction )  . 

Their arent the only trainers complaining about the handicaping systems havent you seen the stories on harness express about 90 south island trainers at one meeting all complaining about the system, why is it only purdon says something you jump up and down .? 

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30 minutes ago, hsvman said:

Why restrict them to one runner per race, if there good enough to buy get given the best horses why penalties them. You said you haven't gotten over the blue magic saga but remember he never produced a positive for blue magic he simply went to the stipes and told all his owner look he's used it a few and will cop what ever penalty is given to him even tho had he fought it with no positive he could not have been charged. 

They got beaten fair and square in the last by a great drive from zac , however they couldve easily set the race up and have Natalie hand up to mark down the back and put zac 3back the fence and have the lead trail with there best two chances but they didn't maybe they  underestimated zacs horse or maybe just the fact they felt they they could win it with trying dirty team tactics. 

Spankems race they could've easily had mark hand up the front to dexter and have another runner of theirs come around and soften dexter up but yet again they didn't you could try and say mark sacrificed spankem leaving it set up for the swoopers but that's drawer a long bow as yet again even tho he parked dexter he still beat him home and only just got caught late. 

They drive  to give there horses the best chance of earning top dollar, they don't drive to sacrifice one for the better of another as (Geoff small used to ) 

They have the luxury which is earned by thier record to have people buy and send them horses who in another stable would be the stables star and horse that would be wrapped in cotton will, yet as they have /get offered so many good horses they can pick and choose which ones they want to train . 

they don't sacrifice?    only because all the other horses in the race have had the shit knocked out of them  and have nothing left to offer.. leaving the winner looking like a champion and the other runner looking as though it was beaten by a better horse.. no offence but we saw this stuff way back when roy purdon  was at the helm. they had 4 or 5 horses in a race and dictated  how the race fanned out.. not always with success but come on.. I might be dumb but i'm not BLIND.

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So what ur saying is Hrnz and the Riu need to lift their game and not allowed participants to push the limits of the rules they set in place.? 

i do understand what your saying but if the the rules are there and the officials don't do anything about it then fair play to them. if a trainer drugs his horses up but never produces a positive so be it the rules and limits are there for a reason once they go over threshold sting them hard. Same goes for team driving if the stipes or Hrnz think they have a case then hit them hard but ATM they are playing well with the rules. Natalie got fine $450 for not keeping her horse straight in that race yet in Auckland mango only got fine $500 for purposely pushing the trailing horse into the passing lane and forcing hat runner to take hold and end up 3fence in the 2yo filles group 1 at Auckland a few weeks ago. 

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I am only an outsider looking in, but it does appear to me that people are a bit harsh on this stable just because they are successful. Being so successful and having so many good horses does have its own problems. For one thing they have to compete against their own horses all of the time. You don't see anything like this attitude towards Chris Waller. I hate to think how many horses he had in the Queensland Oaks.

You would almost think it creates an opportunity for other trainers to try and attract some of their owners away from them. After-all it can't be much fun having the third best horse of a particular class or age in the stable. Obviously they keep all of their owners happy,

I can remember many years ago when the Gibbs stable at Matamata had about four of the best stayers in the country. The owners of the 3rd and 4th best often didn't get to contest the big cups, they had to head down the line to avoid their stablemates.

So, other trainers should be using this situation as a positive and telling prospective owners "why would you want to go to a stable full of stars, give your horse to us and it will get our 100% attention".

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would be nice is natalie  donates $50 difference to a charity , i'd say good one girl.  you have  a 10/10 but can't see that happening..

HRNZ/RIU  need to be more consistant.     it doesn't matter if this is mark purdon or  joe blobs, if they are pulling a fast one they should pay for it (if they get caught).

and I am 100% sure had this been Geoff small  a few seasons ago, HRNZ and RIU would had cut off his balls. and hung them out to dry.

 

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