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What Is Going On? excess Use Of Whip??????

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My eyes and intelligence has just copped an absolute hiding!

Nathan Williamson today at Oamaru in race 8 driving She's AllThe Craze was charged with excess use of the whip and he pleaded GUILTY?????

He has been suspended for 2 racing days plus $300 fine.

I must be going nuts as I have watched the replay and to me he hardly touches the horse with the whip at all?

If he has used the whip it must be very hard to see as it looks more like reigns and he doesn't even do that till very late in the piece.

The Brodster is always on the money but maybe I aren't on this occasion and my eyes are playing tricks on me.

Have the Stipes got this right? And why did Williamson plead guilty?

Got Me absolutely buggered as to what Nathan Williamson has done wrong?

Like to know what you all think?

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9 minutes ago, what a post said:

Agree with you Brodie. 

I'm pleased, I thought I was seeing things!

Why would anyone plead guilty when he did nothing?

This rule for the excess whip needs overturning!!!!!! !

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40 minutes ago, Brodie said:

My eyes and intelligence has just copped an absolute hiding!

Nathan Williamson today at Oamaru in race 8 driving She's AllThe Craze was charged with excess use of the whip and he pleaded GUILTY?????

He has been suspended for 2 racing days plus $300 fine.

I must be going nuts as I have watched the replay and to me he hardly touches the horse with the whip at all?

If he has used the whip it must be very hard to see as it looks more like reigns and he doesn't even do that till very late in the piece.

The Brodster is always on the money but maybe I aren't on this occasion and my eyes are playing tricks on me.

Have the Stipes got this right? And why did Williamson plead guilty?

Got Me absolutely buggered as to what Nathan Williamson has done wrong?

Like to know what you all think?

Depends. He did flick his horse with the whip about 14 times in the straight by my count. Is flicking with the whip counted as a hit?

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44 minutes ago, MisterEd said:

Depends. He did flick his horse with the whip about 14 times in the straight by my count. Is flicking with the whip counted as a hit?

How many times do you think he used the same action on sheacullengirl  in race 10 at Invercargill yesterday?

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1 hour ago, MisterEd said:

Depends. He did flick his horse with the whip about 14 times in the straight by my count. Is flicking with the whip counted as a hit?

Ed, he did not excessively hit the horse!

He barely touched it and certainly no worse than every other horse on the race.

The horse would,have felt nowhere near as much as a horse that has been hit with the whip 5 decent whacks, so the rule is an ass!

Just another wrong decision in regards to a rule that was brought in when not required and needs to be overturned!

I can not see why on earth Nathan would plead guilty??????

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1 hour ago, MisterEd said:

Depends. He did flick his horse with the whip about 14 times in the straight by my count. Is flicking with the whip counted as a hit?

Is a flick excessive use that would worry the horse?????

nah!! 

Blatantly ridiculous decision and seriously how can you take the Stipes seriously when these calls are made?

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8 hours ago, Brodie said:

Is a flick excessive use that would worry the horse?????

nah!! 

Blatantly ridiculous decision and seriously how can you take the Stipes seriously when these calls are made?

How do you know? Did you ask the horse?

Personally, I think getting hit with a whip would be painful but clearly you think differently and feel whipping does not adversely affect a horse at all. Brodie if you are so sure that a whip "flick" is not excessive and does not worry the horse how about you volunteering to be a human guinea pig and get lashed by a whip on your buttocks 14 times. Tell us what it feels like.

 

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8 hours ago, Brodie said:

Is a flick excessive use that would worry the horse?????

nah!! 

Blatantly ridiculous decision and seriously how can you take the Stipes seriously when these calls are made?

Get over it Brodie, you'll never win this whip battle despite all your continuous and boring efforts. FFS the driver pleaded guilty as charged and was accordingly suspended and fined which suggests its not his first time.

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1 hour ago, Thejanitor said:

How do you know? Did you ask the horse?

Personally, I think getting hit with a whip would be painful but clearly you think differently and feel whipping does not adversely affect a horse at all. Brodie if you are so sure that a whip "flick" is not excessive and does not worry the horse how about you volunteering to be a human guinea pig and get lashed by a whip on your buttocks 14 times. Tell us what it feels like.

 

Have you watched the replay?

Nathan Williamson did not use the whip excessively!

It appeared to be more like the reigns in the left hand and it was well inside the 200m when he started.

The fact of the matter is he was suspended and fined for using the whip excessively when he has barely touched the hirsecand far less than many of the other drivers in the race?

It is a ridiculous rule and this is another error.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Newmarket said:

Get over it Brodie, you'll never win this whip battle despite all your continuous and boring efforts. FFS the driver pleaded guilty as charged and was accordingly suspended and fined which suggests its not his first time.

Trina Pora pleaded guilty as well and Mr Markham.

I think some people get pressured easier than others Newmarket and aren't prepared to stand up for what they firmly beleive in!

"The Brodster" is not one of them!

Newmarket, domyou personally think it was as excessive?

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Nathan Williamson only flicked the reins 12 times with his left hand, and that was virtually only in the last hundred metres. If the reins are now classed as a whip then it will be impossible to drive a horse out and so the punter loses again. Why he would say he was guilty is beyond me, unless by flicking the reins 12 times and perhaps was holding the whip as well (I cant see the whip in his hand) he thought plead guilty and perhaps get a lesser fine. Looks like revenue gathering to me.

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4 hours ago, Brodie said:

Trina Pora pleaded guilty as well and Mr Markham.

I think some people get pressured easier than others Newmarket and aren't prepared to stand up for what they firmly beleive in!

"The Brodster" is not one of them!

Newmarket, domyou personally think it was as excessive?

Keep up your losing crusade Brodie, i think its fair to say its one concept you have mastered based on your posts.

Of course it was excessive , the RIU ,JCA and the Driver thought so as well. You really are a loser to try and argue this one

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Newmarket, don't give a rats if you think I am a loser!

At the end of the day it is what I think of myself that matters more!

"The Brodster" tells it the way it is Newmarket, and if you want to defend it then you are entitled to.

Obviously I am not the only one that thinks that the charge is just another stuff up as Overcheck and What A Post see it the same way as I do.

I don't beleive that there would be very many if any professional drivers that would agree that Nathan Williamson' use or lack of use of the whip was excessive at all.

Dont know what Nathan was thinking at all when he pleaded guilty as it beggars belief that he would.

If that is excessive use then most drivers In every race should be suspended and fined,end of storey Newmarket!

Are you a Stipe or involved with the judiciary???

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I have just clicked as to why  Nathan Williamson has pleaded guilty to the charge that should never have been laid!!!!!

I wonder if it has anything at all to do with the Harness jewels?   UMMMM

The Stipes have obviously given the 2 days suspension and fine if Nathan Williamson pleads guilty otherwise if he didn't then he would have got more time and then he would not be able to drive on Jewels day, and Nathan would have drives on that day!

Am I correct Newmarket????

 

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8 hours ago, Thejanitor said:

How do you know? Did you ask the horse?

Personally, I think getting hit with a whip would be painful but clearly you think differently and feel whipping does not adversely affect a horse at all. Brodie if you are so sure that a whip "flick" is not excessive and does not worry the horse how about you volunteering to be a human guinea pig and get lashed by a whip on your buttocks 14 times. Tell us what it feels like.

 

All good points Janitor. Seems we are not alone.

FYG SENSE OF OCCASION – Raced three wide throughout. Corey. Brown pleaded guilty to a charge under AR. 137A(5)(a)(ii) in that he used the whip on 8 occasions prior to the 100m. As C. Brown had recently been penalised on two occasions in April, which included a suspension of his licence to ride and a fine, stewards determined that the appropriate penalty be a suspension of his licence for 7 days and a fine of $2000.

Not a quick learner obviously as he had just returned from previous whip infringment

 

 

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Janitor, if it is all about the feelings of the horses, then let's ban the whip like Oz.

There won't be an industry and most horses will go the the knackers yard but Animal Rights will be appeased, even though there weren't concerned about the whip, and have said so.

The stupid thing with this rule going by what the current system is, it is ok to whack the crap  out of a horse 10 times as that is what the rule says.

It isn't ok to tap the horse with the reigns as Williamson did 11 times, so we will fine him and collect revenue.

Does that revenue go to the Animal Rights coppers or not?

Lets make it fair for everyone then, and if a driver hits his horse too many times and is giving his backers of his horse an advantage over the ones playing the game by hitting 10 times or less, LETS DISQUALIFY THE HORSE!!!!!!

If a horse goes inside the markers for too long therefore gaining an advantage, they are disqualified!

WHY NOT DISQUALIFY THE HORSE AS WELL AS QUARTER THE DRIVER AS THEY ARE CLEARLY CHEATING ARENT THEY???

This will clean up the industry!

 

 

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Nathan has got the Jewels coming up so I guess he thought it better to take his punishment.

If he had pleaded not guilty then it would possibly be adjourned and then he misses the Jewels drive on Dark Horse.

An interesting side issue is at Invercargill the other day the stipe was made to look inept by Nathan when he was late scratched because under the stipe's advice he was made to start from the wrong barrier position. I hope this isn't pay back for that!

Nathan questioned it and the horse was declared a late scratching. Why weren't the other horses late scratched as well. I see there is a enquiry opened about it. Why isn't the stipe fined for his failure to know the rules.

There needs to be an enquiry over this as it is madness

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7 hours ago, 45yearsofharness said:

In the years I've been involved in HR I have never heard of a stipe been punished for their mistake. 

They made a couple of big mistakes with me once and I got shot down, law unto their own.

who do they answer to??

I agree. Look at the mistakes the esteemed Mr Lamb, starter extraordinaire, has made with zero accountability, no punishment.

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1 hour ago, Thejanitor said:

I agree. Look at the mistakes the esteemed Mr Lamb, starter extraordinaire, has made with zero accountability, no punishment.

True, another story I could tell about starters from years gone by where I was draw 3 and a false start was declared and I was sent to the outside for nothing, I said to the starter what did I do, he said take it up with the stipes after the race, I said to damn late after the race.

because I was annoyed I shot over to the inside of the second row to get a better run and I was called into the stipes for being out of position in the second run up, so I asked the stipes what I had done wrong in the first run up and they said nothing that they could see.

I asked what they where going to do about it and they said they would reprimand the starter. OUCH!

They still fined me for being out of position in the second run up.

Senario, trainer, owner, punter and driver not given a fair go and no one held accountable?

 

 

 

 

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On ‎22‎/‎05‎/‎2017 at 11:27 AM, Overcheck said:

Nathan Williamson only flicked the reins 12 times with his left hand, and that was virtually only in the last hundred metres. If the reins are now classed as a whip then it will be impossible to drive a horse out and so the punter loses again. Why he would say he was guilty is beyond me, unless by flicking the reins 12 times and perhaps was holding the whip as well (I cant see the whip in his hand) he thought plead guilty and perhaps get a lesser fine. Looks like revenue gathering to me.

It's because no one ever beats the JCA who find them guilty no matter what. It is well established amongst the drivers that they are better to plead guilty or take a harder penalty for pleading not guilty. Have you seen anyone win after pleading not guilty regards the new whip rules? Waste of time.

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