RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
john legend

very old drivers

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Hi. I have said it before and been pulled up for it but when should drivers say enough is enough! So many safety items necessary for everybody these days on a racetrack with horses travelling at high speed and and we allow 85 year olds to risk heart failure and bringing down a whole field ! compare sports such as  form 1 motor racing,where reactions are necessary in 100ths sec. Most drivers retire by 42 yet we allow even 100 year olds (in theory) with a friendly Dr. on to our racecourses. Stupidity and unfair to put at risk all other drivers.

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2 minutes ago, john legend said:

Hi. I have said it before and been pulled up for it but when should drivers say enough is enough! So many safety items necessary for everybody these days on a racetrack with horses travelling at high speed and and we allow 85 year olds to risk heart failure and bringing down a whole field ! compare sports such as  form 1 motor racing,where reactions are necessary in 100ths sec. Most drivers retire by 42 yet we allow even 100 year olds (in theory) with a friendly Dr. on to our racecourses. Stupidity and unfair to put at risk all other drivers.

what a load of crap i witnessed a 90 year old get his drivers licence

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I see a lot of posts start from Gary 1 start with exact same wording !! pos is a sign of superior intellect.or not as the case may be. I am 69 and drive my v8 quite fast at times but do not have 12 other cars bumper to bumper around me. I know those ancient drivers are really great guys especially one in brown colours down south but honestly is the risk really worth it. A driver died at Hutt Park one night 5 minutes after leaving the track and he was only in his 60s.

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I disagree john legend,  over my years being a harness fan, some of the older drivers  were far better than the younger drivers, not that they were bad drivers... watched him in his last day of driving think he won by 5 lengths maybe more (transmitter sound at alex park)

Maurice Holmes could more than hold his own against most modern day drivers , as  could dozens of  olden day drivers  from years gone by..

I remember a young guy as a junior driver  that was in Irwin berhns stable  who now is  a senior driver.. still  giving it to the young guns.

tony herilhy isn't a spring chicken any more nor is mark Purdon but they are real good drivers..

I understand  how you feel, there are  a couple or three drivers in southland area that even I scratch my head, but even they surprise me with great drives, that suggest i'm over reacting.

maybe it's the pocket talking...

I feel these older guys have earned their right to be there, and are part of harness history..

and if they do have a bad drive  or three so what, it's that one win they do have that makes it all so worth while.

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As we are aware many years ago they did bring in an age restriction!

I think it was then dropped when you couldn't descriminate against age.

Must admit it is a wee bit concerning when you do spot some seriously old fellah inthe cart that looks like he is ready for a kip!

Most have been driving for a long time rather than just having taken it up later in life.

Do agree they probably don't have the same awareness and fast reactions that they had a lot earlier in life.

They probably don't cause accidents more than some of the far younger ones and not too many have passed out in the cart.

From a punters perspective we probably aren't inclined to back them if they are past it.

Not really sure that Mark Purdon and Tony H would be that happy being told they are not a "spring chicken".

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did max robinson die in the cart  -? I think another died   in Australia- hopefully  most guys know when the time is right. most drive their own horses which  they know well -often the trotters which means not as quick or tight and s  starts. I would think a quiet word from the stipes might be the way to go- just like an all black is given the nod and retires gracefully. give them  a send off by naming a race after them- do it gracefully- getting old sucks

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If I remember correctly Tim, Max had a heartie after the race was over and he was back at the Cambridge stables and out of the cart.     Was a really decent bloke and had some very good horses over the years.

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I stand to be corrected but I am sure the oldest horse and driver to win a group 1 was Pompelliar and the late Jack Smolenski in the 2007 NZ Trotting Championship.

Pompelliar at nine years and Jack a young seventy three!!!

 

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Back in the 50's a driver dropped dead during New Zealand Cup.  Can't think of the name but the NZ Cup book has a photo of him leading with a lap to go.  Half a lap later that was it........      Excitement must have been too much for old ticker. 

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I beleive Bob Beck died in the cart at Ashburton or Methven many years ago?

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From memory allan becks father died from a medical incident in a race at methven ,probably over 25 years ago.    I guess you don't have to be over a certain age to suffer a medical  incident. Every one over 55 has to undergo a thorough medical before their licence to drive is renewed.  In an ideal world everyone should recognize when its time to give up,but we don't live in the ideal world and we don't always get warning of whats to come. The system they have in place is probably as fair to everyone as you could get. Having said that I have noticed a couple of times that those who are over 65 and been involved in previous incidents, can be a bit windy. Maybe they were like that when they were young?  Some young, inexperienced drivers may be more likely to make mistakes .From a punters perspective its just one of those factors you take into consideration. I think punters factor in what they think the drivers capabilities are in their view.not their age. Probably more likely to comment on someones age when they get in the way of a horse they have backed.

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14 minutes ago, Mr Spyro said:

Back in the 50's a driver dropped dead during New Zealand Cup.  Can't think of the name but the NZ Cup book has a photo of him leading with a lap to go.  Half a lap later that was it........      Excitement must have been too much for old ticker. 

I think his name was Eugene McDermott. I stand to be corrected.

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no Eugene McDermott in any nz cup in 50's .

I've just looked in flying sulkies  1904/80..

although I can not see anything about  this subject..

I have a inkling that  M.C.McTique   may had been the man

in which case he was driving Tactician, in 1958.

sorry if I am wrong... but i'll read it better in day light tomorrow.

 

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  Wasn't the 1950's but actually was as far back as  1937 !   It was  indeed Eugene McDermott driving  Colonel Grattan. Led until 2 furlongs from home, fell from sulky and died before he got to hospital. By all accounts a popular and well known driver. 

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okay got it,

1939, nz cup.

colonel grattan, finished driverless really close up from winner. 

driven by E.C.McDermott

McDrmott raced Colonel Grattan to the lead within 100 yards of the quarter mile post.

obvious  intention to steal the race, but then collapsed and dropped from the sulky .

he was not interfered with from any following horses, but  on the way to hospital by ambulance died of his heart attack.

  • by all accounts  colonel grattan was in good form , although he was almost outsider for the race,.
  • FLYING SULKIES has picture of Colonel Grattan taking the lead second time round, also
  • has an insert of Eugene McDermott. who they say was   popular.
  •  
  • hope that helps .sorry for putting you all crook on   M.C.McTique.
  •  

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 I used to love jack robinson and greg  robinson. I seem to remember he won a race and met the queen. had a menswear shop in mangere I think- the day of the amateur in the north is going by the wayside- not the best driver you ever see but won a lot of races. copped a bit of stick when the crowds were a bit more vocal- funny as a fight.

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Max Robinson always seemed to  have  a smile on his face except this  one time. We were standing by the fence after 1979 NZ Cup won by Lord Moudule.  He'd put up a hell of a performance after getting left behind  but Devine had knocked a few horses over  to get him up   esp Greg Robinson. Max had the whip knocked right out of his  hand and was absolutely  seething when he stormed past us .  Can remember someone saying to him "  Go and do the  old bastard Max "   and  it looked for all the world he'd go and  knock Devine's block off.   Seem to recall there was a lengthy protest before Lord Module was declared winner. 

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those were the days who can forget mr spyro with the white gear, L Hill is that you or any relation. another mangere horse john tudor   owner trainers c dodds- I bought frank parsons place another top owner trainer- hillcrest j  clark the list goes on- stacks at kumeu then-whats happened it was a working mans sport with heaps of guys doing their own horses.

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No ,  L. Hills wife was sister of someone we knew.   My mum's friend owned a horse called Diogeenes that was a good trotter but never knew what he'd do next .   Another small time trainer from Cambridge name escapes me had it  .  This night my mum said she'd  cover it in a treble for me, I was still at school. Told her not to bother just leave it out. Thing won and treble was  $ 300 , lot of money to miss for a kid in 70's still at school.   All the old owner trainers at Alex Park on Sunday morning - old Barney Repiha.  Had Abbot's Way, the horse had blue eyes and only won in day as lights hurt his eyes.   .   Lot of  those blokes are long gone like  Ritchie Thompson . Told us  after  just 1 win Stratum would be top horse.  Was top qualifier going into  last round of Interdoms but  had to be stratched from final with leg problems. 

 

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1 hour ago, final luca said:

okay got it,

1939, nz cup.

colonel grattan, finished driverless really close up from winner. 

driven by E.C.McDermott

McDrmott raced Colonel Grattan to the lead within 100 yards of the quarter mile post.

obvious  intention to steal the race, but then collapsed and dropped from the sulky .

he was not interfered with from any following horses, but  on the way to hospital by ambulance died of his heart attack.

  • by all accounts  colonel grattan was in good form , although he was almost outsider for the race,.
  • FLYING SULKIES has picture of Colonel Grattan taking the lead second time round, also
  • has an insert of Eugene McDermott. who they say was   popular.
  •  
  • hope that helps .sorry for putting you all crook on   M.C.McTique.
  •  

 

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Eugene McDermott was my grandfather, and was only 54 years of age when he died in 1939. He had had rheumatic fever 6 weeks earlier, in those days medical science had not discovered or were aware that this condition can seriously impact and strain the heart, it is well recognised now. He had won the NZ cup in 1934 driving Indianapolis in his first of three.

I train/drive in his colours, first registered in 1912, the oldest set in the country I would think.

In 2009, 70 years after his death, in my first drive on Addington in a non tote amateur race, I saluted the judge, a win that gave me enormous personal satisfaction.

I am now much older than my grandfather was when he died at Addington, pass a strenuous medical test every year to keep my amateur licence but clearly if a similar event/illness hit me like my grandfather no annual medical can prevent it.

John McDermott

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4 hours ago, Patiti said:

Would Mick Prendergast be the oldest active driver at the moment.

Drives well enough but you would think the horses would go better with younger stronger driver.

I would guess that Ivan Schwamm was the oldest still driving, but I could be wrong.

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15 hours ago, eljay said:

If I remember correctly Tim, Max had a heartie after the race was over and he was back at the Cambridge stables and out of the cart.     Was a really decent bloke and had some very good horses over the years.

I knew Max reasonably well and did drive a few for him in junior drivers races.  Unfortunately I was driving in the race he fell in and he seemed fine afterwards and I was talking to him in the old drivers room down in the stable area at Cambridge.  I remember Ken Webber was also talking to him when he had the heart attack and he alerted the medical people on course.

 

9 hours ago, tim vince said:

those were the days who can forget mr spyro with the white gear, L Hill is that you or any relation. another mangere horse john tudor   owner trainers c dodds- I bought frank parsons place another top owner trainer- hillcrest j  clark the list goes on- stacks at kumeu then-whats happened it was a working mans sport with heaps of guys doing their own horses.

Tim, back then Kumeu was huge.  A couple of hundred horses worked on the track and then there were the stables around Boord Cres that had their own tracks.  The workouts on a Sunday were pretty big to with a heap of horses each week and I remember big crowds on a Sunday as well.  It was a good place for a young driver to learn a few things on the track from the likes of Tommy Knowles, Peter Young, Gary Hillier, Frank Cooney, Mike Nicholas etc, etc (the list goes on).  But not only were there plenty of full time professional trainers, there were a heap of owner trainers as well and the track seemed to be in used all day, every day with people working their horses in the evening (after they had finished their 'day jobs')

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7 hours ago, Patiti said:

Would Mick Prendergast be the oldest active driver at the moment.

Drives well enough but you would think the horses would go better with younger stronger driver.

Wouldn't think you could say that Mick drives well at all!

His UDR over the last 10 years would be one of the  worst and his horses always go better with a different driver.

 

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