Thoroughbred industry participants call crisis meeting despite funding announcement

[Patiti 274]

Just shows how pathetic the 4.77M over all codes with only part to enhance stakes really is.

Tokenism.

There is a need to boost at all levels but particularly the elite and the lower end.

It wasn't until I was asked if I wanted to claim GST on stakes that I realised I was providing a service.

The idea of paying horses starting for the first few times is good.

It would encourage better fields for a race day instead of numerous trial runs which do not make any money for the industry.

It is frustrating at certain times of the year to get into a field without being balloted and then if you finally have a bit of success to find suitable races.

Some trainers seem to be genius's at this but to the average owner seems to create problems right through the system.

I am sure Jackson & GP and the crew could come up with a few initiatives to move the industry forward if they got off their hands and stopped expecting help from other places.

How the money is spent is as important as how much.

[Huey 2,037]

7 hours ago, tasman man 11 said:

Many on here seem keen to slash the high stake races and add to low end.

IMO this would just speed up the demise of the Industry in NZ....owners would leave in droves.

Say you too k $100,000k off the equivalent of 50 races , difficult to do = $5mill.

Say they slashed $10mill off wages at NZRB = Total to spend then $15mill.

There are over 5000 gapers racing ,say they average 1 win each per season [ they don't] then they would receive an extra $3000 each.=$15mill

So the average horse ,and most aren't average ,would get back say an average of $12k back each for the investment of say $25k to $30k each as opposed to $9k.

All horses would be just pre- trained  to race in Australia where stakes appear to increase regularly ,their industry boosted by Govt spend.

My rough figures are only divided up among our TB's , ignoring harness and doggies !

As for the Wellington Cup ,cafers argued for years to return to the iconic 3200m to increase excitement and encourage owners/trainers to develop great 3200m horses like the good old days.

Now cafers are bemoaning the 3200m event as merely catering for highweight camels running around for excessive money which could be better spent giving every horse in NZ a few carrots each.

I thought the intention was to groom our horses to dominate the Melbourne Cup...haha.

 

I'm not keen on slashing at the top end , I think they are low enough where they are at present. But I can't see the point in running $25-50k maiden ,R65,races on special days just utterly pointless and no free racing on top of that.

The Clubs need incentivising for race days and stakes , therefore a better and more equitable funding policy and calendar in place.

[Guest 2Admin2]

38 minutes ago, Huey said:

I'm not keen on slashing at the top end , I think they are low enough where they are at present. But I can't see the point in running $25-50k maiden ,R65,races on special days just utterly pointless and no free racing on top of that.

The Clubs need incentivising for race days and stakes , therefore a better and more equitable funding policy and calendar in place.

That's the type of thinking that has got us into the state we are in!  Take one example - $250,000 Wellington Cup basically a R85.  You would have got the same field for $50,000 and funded 20 $10,000 maidens.  The 20 maidens would have returned positive revenue to the industry unlike the Wellington Cup which was heavily subsidised.  Of those 300 horses that ran round for $10,000 you may have got 3 or 4 sets of owners who were willing to hang in there a bit longer and maybe the R85 Cup might rise to an R90 or better.

[Midget 4,489]

Admin has a point.

Why is Ellerslie running $200k G1 races when the Wellington Cup is a G3 worth $250k when it should be a $70k race ??

It's bizarre, and what on earth does the Race group and Alisdair Robertson have over NZTR given that their clubs get such preferential treatment when they are without exception "cot cases", and arguably dangerous swamps ?

[Huey 2,037]

13 minutes ago, 2Admin2 said:

That's the type of thinking that has got us into the state we are in!  Take one example - $250,000 Wellington Cup basically a R85.  You would have got the same field for $50,000 and funded 20 $10,000 maidens.  The 20 maidens would have returned positive revenue to the industry unlike the Wellington Cup which was heavily subsidised.  Of those 300 horses that ran round for $10,000 you may have got 3 or 4 sets of owners who were willing to hang in there a bit longer and maybe the R85 Cup might rise to an R90 or better.

Fair comment and you're correct in your thinking, my point was that it would be a little scary to see those top level races go any lower from an international perspective.

[Huey 2,037]

7 minutes ago, Midget said:

Admin has a point.

Why is Ellerslie running $200k G1 races when the Wellington Cup is a G3 worth $250k when it should be a $70k race ??

It's bizarre, and what on earth does the Race group and Alisdair Robertson have over NZTR given that their clubs get such preferential treatment when they are without exception "cot cases", and arguably dangerous swamps ?

True when you put it in comparison like that.

Why is Ellerslie running $50k maidens? Or re these funded solely by the club?

[shaneMcAlister 1,425]

8 minutes ago, Midget said:

Admin has a point.

Why is Ellerslie running $200k G1 races when the Wellington Cup is a G3 worth $250k when it should be a $70k race ??

It's bizarre, and what on earth does the Race group and Alisdair Robertson have over NZTR given that their clubs get such preferential treatment when they are without exception "cot cases", and arguably dangerous swamps ?

I understand the sentiment here.  The Wellington Cup field for a G3 race worth $250K was not good enough.  However I think the Wellington Club or nz racing are stuck between a rock and a hard place here.  It is obvious the Cup has lost all its former glory etc and they are trying to improve its status again.  So if it was downgraded to a $75K race it is gone forever.  It use to be a truly great race.

[Guest 2Admin2]

Just now, shaneMcAlister said:

I understand the sentiment here.  The Wellington Cup field for a G3 race worth $250K was not good enough.  However I think the Wellington Club or nz racing are stuck between a rock and a hard place here.  It is obvious the Cup has lost all its former glory etc and they are trying to improve its status again.  So if it was downgraded to a $75K race it is gone forever.  It use to be a truly great race.

Just like the Wellington 7's it has lost its gloss.  No point throwing money at nostalgia.

[Trump 2,741]

Maybe the Wellington Cup was allocated $150k and the Club had a $100k Sponsor? There's nothing to stop Clubs from raising sponsorship money to boost stakes. That's how the " Kelt Stakes " got to the $1m originally wasn't it ? Be interesting to know what level of funding was provided by NZTR for the "G3" Welly Cup, compared to funding provided for the G1 Zabeel Classic eh ? One would think that the latter would receive more as a G1. 

[Nerula 1,403]

Just for the record ALL sector groups have participated in the discussions to date. I believe All will attend the meeting

Extreme confidentiality had been agreed on, but some party has breached that or more likely there has just been speculation and resultant scuttlebutt.

I do not think I will be attending.

[Guest 2Admin2]

15 minutes ago, Trump said:

Maybe the Wellington Cup was allocated $150k and the Club had a $100k Sponsor? There's nothing to stop Clubs from raising sponsorship money to boost stakes. That's how the " Kelt Stakes " got to the $1m originally wasn't it ? Be interesting to know what level of funding was provided by NZTR for the "G3" Welly Cup, compared to funding provided for the G1 Zabeel Classic eh ? One would think that the latter would receive more as a G1. 

The Kelt Stakes was folly and it got to the $1m on the back of Winston did it not?

Wellington got at least $150k from NZTR funding - the club had to provide $50k.  The Zabeel Classic is not classified as "iconic".....is it not?

[Midget 4,489]

I can assure you Nerula that very little confidentiality has been breached actually other than to advise the meeting is occurring ( as I was instructed to do by more than one sector ), and I acquiesced to that request largely because the resident discretionary Cafe owners, you and Tasman Man, combined age 273 years, combined IQ about 11.73 and diminishing, those who think you are owed something ( when you're not ) by the industry, you who are forever attacking certain individuals who have been trying to get action moving for some time, with other ginger groups, some identified, some not, well I just thought the wider industry should know that there are those amongst us who are getting momentum, and there's a harbinger moment ahead, because I'm fucking sick of old whingers demanding we not exercise our right to dissent, old codgers consumed by a self centered " what about me " mentality when you've done nothing, spilt no blood, paid no rent, added no value to the industry, but you want to malign those with passion who want something left of the game to pass on to the next generation.

Same as Fairtax, where were you then ?, sideline again, doing nothing but whinging and pontificating, then bludging, sucking at the tit of the Fairtax rewards, as you do.

See you see you next time.

[shaneMcAlister 1,425]

14 minutes ago, Nerula said:

Just for the record ALL sector groups have participated in the discussions to date. I believe All will attend the meeting

Extreme confidentiality had been agreed on, but some party has breached that or more likely there has just been speculation and resultant scuttlebutt.

I do not think I will be attending.

In my opinion it is the secret service of these meetings that give me the sh1ts!!  Why can a pre-agenda not be circulated?  This is bollix.

[Leggy 4,089]

22 minutes ago, shaneMcAlister said:

In my opinion it is the secret service of these meetings that give me the sh1ts!!  Why can a pre-agenda not be circulated?  This is bollix.

If all sector groups are involved, surely their members would have been notified, consulted and advised of the agenda?

[Guest 2Admin2]

35 minutes ago, shaneMcAlister said:

In my opinion it is the secret service of these meetings that give me the sh1ts!!  Why can a pre-agenda not be circulated?  This is bollix.

Smells of breeders to me and uni-code!

[Midget 4,489]

Trainers, jockeys, breeders and the big 5 clubs, plus obviously NZTR and the NZRB.

This is an evolution of the ( not very ) secret IP meetings and Jacksons & NZTR's ( not very ) cunning plan to enter into a parallel relationship with an Australian betting agency, a plan that was easily out manoeuvred by Slipppery John Allen and the NZRB.

I personally think the invitees cover enough of the industry to be able to exert the required influence and to execute an effective "plan B" if required, and anyway, let's just applaud and celebrate the fact we've got some consensus and we're finally doing something.

[Leggy 4,089]

5 minutes ago, Midget said:

Trainers, jockeys, breeders and the big 5 clubs, plus obviously NZTR and the NZRB.

This is an evolution of the ( not very ) secret IP meetings and Jacksons & NZTR's ( not very ) cunning plan to enter into a parallel relationship with an Australian betting agency, a plan that was easily out manoeuvred by Slipppery John Allen and the NZRB.

I personally think the invitees cover enough of the industry to be able to exert the required influence and to execute an effective "plan B" if required, and anyway, let's just applaud and celebrate the fact we've got some consensus and we're finally doing something.

True, but it seems any consensus seems to be across a handful of people in each of the sector groups and excludes the bulk of their memberships who seemingly know nothing about what the plan is (except via the info and article distributed here), let alone have they had a chance to condone it.

[Leggy 4,089]

8 minutes ago, 2Admin2 said:

Smells of breeders to me and uni-code!

Yeahh, probably something obsolete like UCS-2.

[Midget 4,489]

It'll be like Fairtax, it'll start Sunday ( 127 people will leak details of the meeting to me and they'll be published here ) then there'll be the threat to execute plan B, then NZTR will plead for " more time ", there'll be another crisis meeting, then plan B will be executed, there'll be some who disapprove but the majority will support what's going to happen, then Winston will step up and declare that xxxxxxxx is going to happen if he gets elected and forms a coalition, after which Bill English will declare that he too wants xxxxxxx to happen......and 73% of those who've made themselves fat in Petone will announce they're " looking at other opportunities for family reasons " and the rest of us can unite, knuckle down, and turn this thing around.

[Leggy 4,089]

7 minutes ago, Midget said:

It'll be like Fairtax, it'll start Sunday ( 127 people will leak details of the meeting to me and they'll be published here ) then there'll be the threat to execute plan B, then NZTR will plead for " more time ", there'll be another crisis meeting, then plan B will be executed, there'll be some who disapprove but the majority will support what's going to happen, then Winston will step up and declare that xxxxxxxx is going to happen if he gets elected and forms a coalition, after which Bill English will declare that he too wants xxxxxxx to happen......and 73% of those who've made themselves fat in Petone will announce they're " looking at other opportunities for family reasons " and the rest of us can unite, knuckle down, and turn this thing around.

Should I head to Karaka and buy a yearling then?

[berzerk 107]

Lifting Maidens from $7,000 to $10,000 min will achieve little in my opinion.

It moves the gross winner's stake from $4,375 to $5,900. I simply cannot see that making a great difference.

 

[Guest 2Admin2]

7 minutes ago, Leggy said:

Should I head to Karaka and buy a yearling then?

Stand next to the knackers truck $600 might pick one up for you.

[Midget 4,489]

8 minutes ago, Leggy said:

Should I head to Karaka and buy a yearling then?

I'd buy two or three 

[trakdap 390]

17 minutes ago, Midget said:

It'll be like Fairtax, it'll start Sunday ( 127 people will leak details of the meeting to me and they'll be published here ) then there'll be the threat to execute plan B, then NZTR will plead for " more time ", there'll be another crisis meeting, then plan B will be executed, there'll be some who disapprove but the majority will support what's going to happen, then Winston will step up and declare that xxxxxxxx is going to happen if he gets elected and forms a coalition, after which Bill English will declare that he too wants xxxxxxx to happen......and 73% of those who've made themselves fat in Petone will announce they're " looking at other opportunities for family reasons " and the rest of us can unite, knuckle down, and turn this thing around.

Sounds feasible. Hope its all not just Pss n wind.

[shaneMcAlister 1,425]

2 minutes ago, berzerk said:

Lifting Maidens from $7,000 to $10,000 min will achieve little in my opinion.

It moves the gross winner's stake from $4,375 to $5,900. I simply cannot see that making a great difference.

 

Agree and understand.  But it will be a start.  $10K looks better on paper than $7K.