RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
Kotare_Hunter

What has the Brodsters tip actually been upto?

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interesting that horses weren,t given the fomula til after last race ,horse with positive was in race 8 would have had vet with it leaving track  so couldn,t have been treated til after testing.one party is fined for having drug oncourse but  NOT treating horse,horses owners lose stake and cleared of any involvement so the horse was not treated yet had a positive,the dunn stable had the drug but did not give it to the horse who had the positive,and the horse who returned the positive whicch neither party treated loses the race...how the jca could make a decision on this case is beyond belief ..someone ,s not telling the whole truth

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Reading both decisions I got the impression that they thought the Larsen trained horse was possibly given the drug by mistake by mr smith(dunns employee) but by inferring that, one must conclude that they believe that mr smith had administered the drug to what he thought were his horses after each horse had raced,and not after the final race had been run as mr smith had claimed.   That  way it created the possibility of mr smith giving the drug to the wrong horse prior to mr larsens horse raced,but after  a dunn trained horse had run earlier in the night.     Bit confusing but seems possible.  Mr smith denied giving the medication on race night as it would have been an admission of breaking the rules.  All supposition.    Does make sense in a way though as their would be no way the dunns  would give their horses  on racenight a drug that they know they test for, prior to them racing. They are not that stupid,nor is Larsen. This is not a drug for which the exact levels are not known when given  like tc02 or cobalt testing.  Does look like an unfortunate and not deliberate mistake occurred,.  All guess work though as it does not fully spell it out in the decisions.,just my take on things.

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1 hour ago, GFC said:

Craig Smith injected all Dunns horses by himself after the last race?? Is he a honest man or telling a few lies to protect someone else!!! Maybe he was told what to say!

Who would he be protecting.Robert and John were elsewhere and were the only other ones brought into the occasion.

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Dunns vet must come under question! Every horse requires pain killer after racing? What does animal welfare think of this? Hope Dunns owners are happy with this dodgy practice. If Craig Smith has been coerced into what to say then not a good start to his future career. Dunns seemed happy for Larsen to take the fall! have they no morals or integrity at all!!!

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54 minutes ago, GFC said:

Dunns vet must come under question! Every horse requires pain killer after racing? What does animal welfare think of this? Hope Dunns owners are happy with this dodgy practice. If Craig Smith has been coerced into what to say then not a good start to his future career. Dunns seemed happy for Larsen to take the fall! have they no morals or integrity at all!!!

Why would vet come under question when it is common practice for a lot of stables to administer this drug to help with horses recovery?Dunns owners all know because it is on there monthly bill,and what makes it a dodgy practice,it is only a recovery drug not a performance enhancing drug.Most top athletes take recovery drugs,indeed the greatest team of all time,All Blacks have a system in place where drugs can be administered for recovery purposes if required.Obviously with a 4 day stand down period their horses on the circuit at the moment wont be getting it until after last meeting today.

What makes you think that Dunns were happy for Kirk to take the fall?They rightly said that they were not present so unsure what happened but it is stable protocol to administer said drug after all horses have raced.I think Robert and John would be the first ones to apologise to Kirk if they thought it was their fault but the facts are that nobody knows how it got in said horses system for sure and RIU and everybody involved have basically stated that.

My personal opinion is that Craig has made an honest  mistake and is unsure which horse he gave it too,and also hasnt followed stable protocol.

I see your points would be valid if one iota of proof GFC, but i think you are just clutching at something that not intentional and just human error. 

 

I see you have only posted 3 times on this site and all on this subject.is this a personal crusade.

 

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RJ Dunn horses that raced before Melina Lowe were Race 2 Haydens Meddle and Race 5 (the late) Pembrook Harry both bay geldings.

Quest For Fame also a bay gelding raced in Race 7 but seems unlikely his identity was mistaken given Melina Lowe a brown mare raced in Race 8.

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What about the rule that you can't inject a horse on race day until 30 minutes after the last race.

Melina Lowe was obviously administered the substance before her race.

Did the RIU just forget about this? What a joke this organisation has become.

How can Larsen be not guilty, but Smith/Dunns also not guilty?

If they found evidence to prove Larsen didn't do it, they must have had evidence of someone else doing it.

This is a god damn joke and a disgrace.

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They havent got proof of any body doing it that the trouble.As far as they know,although highly improbable,it could have been Joe Bloggs or another member of the public as apparently this night there was no security on at stabling area. 

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1 minute ago, richie-Richard McGee said:

They havent got proof of any body doing it that the trouble.As far as they know,although highly improbable,it could have been Joe Bloggs or another member of the public as apparently this night there was no security on at stabling area. 

Don't embarrass yourself.

If what you say is true, which it isn't, then why was Larsen not charged and found guilty of presenting a horse to race not free of a prohibited substance.
Saying "I didn't do it" is not evidence enough to get him off.
Point of clarification - I am not asserting that Larsen is guilty, just that the RIU have majorly fucked up here.

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55 minutes ago, Toblerone said:

Don't embarrass yourself.

If what you say is true, which it isn't, then why was Larsen not charged and found guilty of presenting a horse to race not free of a prohibited substance.
Saying "I didn't do it" is not evidence enough to get him off.
Point of clarification - I am not asserting that Larsen is guilty, just that the RIU have majorly fucked up here.

He

 

57 minutes ago, Toblerone said:

Don't embarrass yourself.

If what you say is true, which it isn't, then why was Larsen not charged and found guilty of presenting a horse to race not free of a prohibited substance.
Saying "I didn't do it" is not evidence enough to get him off.
Point of clarification - I am not asserting that Larsen is guilty, just that the RIU have majorly fucked up here.

Thought he was charged and fined.

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57 minutes ago, Toblerone said:

Don't embarrass yourself.

If what you say is true, which it isn't, then why was Larsen not charged and found guilty of presenting a horse to race not free of a prohibited substance.
Saying "I didn't do it" is not evidence enough to get him off.
Point of clarification - I am not asserting that Larsen is guilty, just that the RIU have majorly fucked up here.

Do agree that RIU has ballsed this up big time,havent got the balls to go at Craig Smith and i dont know why.Maybe their case is too flimsy ,and they know 

 without proof they lead themselves open for all sorts of claims.

 

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12 minutes ago, richie-Richard McGee said:

He

 

Thought he was charged and fined.

Fined $250 after some glowing references from the RIU ......

 

3. POSITION OF THE RIU

3.1 Mr Lange filed extensive submissions. These make reference to a number of precedents involving horses presented with prohibited substances. The Committee is familiar with those decisions. None present a precise comparison with the unusual circumstances that exist here.

3.2 Mr Lange pointed to Mr Larsen having left the horse MELINA LOWE unattended for a period during the evening. This was when he was driving a horse in an earlier race and when he was having a cup of tea. There is no obligation upon a licenced trainer to remain with his or her horses throughout. It is perhaps regrettable that there was not an employee of the trotting club in the stabling area. Since these proceedings were initiated the RIU has received advice from the Forbury Park Trotting Club that there will henceforth be a person or persons in the stabling area throughout the evening’s racing. Advice has been given to the RIU by the Forbury Park Trotting Club that the pedestrian access to the stabling area was manned by a security guard during the May race meeting but not during the June and July meetings this year. The provisions of such security guards is no guarantee that persons who are determined to evade the rules will be detected and nor would it be a complete protection against inadvertent administration of a prohibited substance to a horse who was not the truly intended recipient.

3.3 The submissions prepared by Mr Lange set out a number of mitigating circumstances. It is appropriate to set these out verbatim. They are as follows:

a) When spoken to by Racing Integrity Unit Racing Investigators Mr Larsen was cooperative and made his stables openly available for inspection;

B) Mr Larsen’s stable was clean, tidy and presented in immaculate condition;

c) Mr Larsen kept medications in a locked secure cabinet;

d) The stable has good security with secure fencing, video surveillance nearby, an aggressive dog and a neighbouring house situated beside the main stable block;

e) There was no evidence of Ketoprofen at his stable;

f) Veterinary records failed to show any purchases of Ketoprofen and the owners accounts also failed to show any signs of the usage of Ketoprofen;

g) Mr Larsen has an excellent record over a 31 year old involvement in the Harness Racing industry with no previous breaches of any note;

h) Mr Larsen’s stable is run in a very professional and organised manner;

i) Mr Larsen has admitted a breach of the Rules at the first available opportunity;

j) Mr Larsen’s conduct throughout the investigation has been totally professional and he has been cooperative at all times.

 

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