RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
Midget

Handicapping model corrupt ?

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This years edition is clearly weaker than last years.

Last year Nashville was a 59kg top weight (previous start G3 winner) off a rating of 99 , Jimmy Mac was rated 98 and carried 57.5kg (last two starts prior had been a G3 & Listed winner), Sureasyouwereborn R96, King Kamada R92, Sampson R91, Show The World R90, Blood Brotha R89.

Pentathlon last year off a Rating of 87 carried 53kg, wouldn't be the case this year

The Wellington Cup is no longer a strong race and it will continue to be weak with its placing on the calendar and the fact that its a 3200m race with the Avondale Cups/Auckland Cups around the corner many are bypassing this race, this year is a very weak edition but the way our Handicapping is set up this race is likely to remain weak unfortunately

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11 minutes ago, Midget said:

Black type performances in handicaps, love it, you're in cuckoo land !!! 

Have you had a bit of a head knock or something Huey ?, your IQ appears to be lower than the cost of my latte mate.

I was emphasizing that G1 WFA form against old horses is very different to Group form at age group level or black type form in handicaps.

I shall lower my expectation with regard to you in future, now where's that spade......

 

How can you rate Blacktype form when a R93 mare wins a G1 WFA race? Keep letting your bias shine through.

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1 minute ago, Huey said:

How can you rate Blacktype form when a R93 mare wins a G1 WFA race? Keep letting your bias shine through.

Consensus was previously a G3 WFA winner at Ellerslie over 2000m

Also had previously been G1 WFA placed at 2000m at Ellerslie as well as placing again in a G3 WFA 2000m race also at Ellerslie,

She's a proven Group performer at WFA and Handicap level,

Do you not rate her form particularly around the likes of Volkstok'n'barrell/Authentic Paddy/Stolen Dance/Girl Of My Dreams/Hasselhoof etc?

 

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8 minutes ago, Huey said:

How can you rate Blacktype form when a R93 mare wins a G1 WFA race? Keep letting your bias shine through.

She raced to a new level above her existing rating, she was re-rated accordingly to 102.

The horses all around here were G1 horses.

She will continue to race to that level, just as she did last autumn when an unlucky third at G1 level behind the G1 horses Volkstok'n'barrel and Girl Of My Dreams ( I think I owned and trained one if them to win a group race too, remarkable !! ).

Now I'm not very tolerant Huey, you probably knew that, and clearly you're not very bright, or you're really new to the game, so let's agree that I'll keep doing my thing ( rather well if I may say so ) and you'll keep having fun with yourself in your sandpit.

See ya.

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44 minutes ago, Midget said:

Black type performances in handicaps, love it, you're in cuckoo land !!! 

Have you had a bit of a head knock or something Huey ?, your IQ appears to be lower than the cost of my latte mate.

I was emphasizing that G1 WFA form against old horses is very different to Group form at age group level or black type form in handicaps.

I shall lower my expectation with regard to you in future, now where's that spade......

 

I don't care if you're lactose intolerant, you're tolerance levels have nothing to do with me.

You better tell all those studs that pay big $$ for 3yo classic form that they are wasting their money as only WFA form particularly at Ellerslie is worth investing in.

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16 minutes ago, Huey said:

I don't care if you're lactose intolerant, you're tolerance levels have nothing to do with me.

You better tell all those studs that pay big $$ for 3yo classic form that they are wasting their money as only WFA form particularly at Ellerslie is worth investing in.

Your'e so stupid I'm going to presume you're either associated with the WRC or you've never raced a decent horse and thus you can't be expected to know what you're talking about.

Which is it, either or both ?

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1 hour ago, Midget said:

She raced to a new level above her existing rating, she was re-rated accordingly to 102.

The horses all around here were G1 horses.

She will continue to race to that level, just as she did last autumn when an unlucky third at G1 level behind the G1 horses Volkstok'n'barrel and Girl Of My Dreams ( I think I owned and trained one if them to win a group race too, remarkable !! ).

Now I'm not very tolerant Huey, you probably knew that, and clearly you're not very bright, or you're really new to the game, so let's agree that I'll keep doing my thing ( rather well if I may say so ) and you'll keep having fun with yourself in your sandpit.

See ya.

So here is a guy who openly criticises the Handicapping Model and then when it suits him takes it as religious verbatim and has the nerve to call people stupid.

 

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1 minute ago, Huey said:

So here is a guy who openly criticises the Handicapping Model and then when it suits him takes it as religious verbatim and has the nerve to call people stupid.

 

It was WFA not a handicap.

Clearly you don't know the difference.

Not sure if you know this Huey but you don't need to advertise how limited your knowledge is or how thick you are....that said you're doing a bloody great job of it.....

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12 minutes ago, Midget said:

It was WFA not a handicap.

Clearly you don't know the difference.

Not sure if you know this Huey but you don't need to advertise how limited your knowledge is or how thick you are....that said you're doing a bloody great job of it.....

You're quoting the ratings in the Cup , top weight a 90 etc. WFA has nothing to do with you qouting the ratings of you're mare either. 

You need a freshen up , perhaps a short spell or some time on the water walker as you keep regurgitating the same same. 

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34 minutes ago, Huey said:

You're quoting the ratings in the Cup , top weight a 90 etc. WFA has nothing to do with you qouting the ratings of you're mare either. 

You need a freshen up , perhaps a short spell or some time on the water walker as you keep regurgitating the same same. 

No I'm not, I'm responding to your comments about the Zabeel Classic and trying to help you understand the distinction between handicap racing and WFA racing, and of course age group racing v. racing against all aged horses, but in particular old horses. 

And you're of course quoting two NZ Oaks winners in a bad handicap then taking a quantum and rather bizarre leap and claiming studs need to know 3yo classic form doesn't warrant a stud career.

Which particular studs did you think these two mares might stand at you FW ???

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3 hours ago, BruceL said:

Goodness me you are showing yourself up here, I have made no reference to other Wellington Cup fields, this years edition is a poor R90 3200m race. It is hard to argue that it's a good race as it isn't but good luck to all connections someone has to win it.

In regards to my point about Xtravagant, if you read it properly it was about a NSW stud buying him and I stated it would be hard to believe a serious NSW stud would want him with no Australian form. 

On a side note, if you think AUS form is not important for a AUS or NZ bred and raced stallion , who are some successful sires in NZ at the moment that have no Australian group form?

Pentire, Per Incanto,Iffraaj do I need to go on. None have Aus group form.

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13 minutes ago, Huey said:

Pentire, Per Incanto,Iffraaj do I need to go on. None have Aus group form.

Someone doesn't read properly!

I said a AUS/NZ bred and raced stallion with no Australian Group form, now list them please, go on!

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17 minutes ago, Huey said:

Pentire, Per Incanto,Iffraaj do I need to go on. None have Aus group form.

Didn't race there FFS....are you a bit off colour ? or are you playing on Mummy's computer, during the school holidays ?

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3 minutes ago, BruceL said:

Someone doesn't read properly!

I said a AUS/NZ bred and raced stallion with no Australian Group form, now list them please, go on!

No you said who are some successful sires. 

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You are embarrassing yourself , surely you can work out what I was saying

 

"On a side note, if you think AUS form is not important for a AUS or NZ bred and raced stallion, who are some successful sires in NZ at the moment that have no Australian group form? "

Here you go then, Please name some current successful NZ or AUS bred stallions that raced here and don't have any Australian Group form

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1 minute ago, Midget said:

The only one I can think of is Zed and you'd probably ( respectfully ) argue that he's at the hobby breeder level as a stallion, rather than commercial, although he can leave a nice horse.

Well summarised,

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I think it's all about the ratings which are flawed. 

A few years ago a R93 horse wouldn't be in a Group One let alone win it!

The ratings of all the horses in the Cup tomorrow are crap but the horses are not that bad, as Heuy has pointed out. 

Its a good betting race with lots of chances and it should be a great spectacle on a great track and surface. 

Leo, please don't come back with your worn out cliches about spec savers. Save it for another day or come back tomorrow with "I told you so" if you think the outcome warrants it.

Its a shame that you are not going to be on-course tomorrow as I would give you a cuddle to try and sweeten you up!

Liz

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I don't know a lot about the handicapping system, but a horse I noted racing today called Vincent Street seems to be a victim of this system.

He has won 3 races from 74 starts, they were in September 2011, October 2012, and February 2015, so winless for almost 2 years.

He always seems to be carrying a lot of weight despite not winning a race for a long, long time but never seems to get any relief from the handicapper?

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1 hour ago, Insider said:

I think it's all about the ratings which are flawed. 

A few years ago a R93 horse wouldn't be in a Group One let alone win it!

The ratings of all the horses in the Cup tomorrow are crap but the horses are not that bad, as Heuy has pointed out. 

Its a good betting race with lots of chances and it should be a great spectacle on a great track and surface. 

Leo, please don't come back with your worn out cliches about spec savers. Save it for another day or come back tomorrow with "I told you so" if you think the outcome warrants it.

Its a shame that you are not going to be on-course tomorrow as I would give you a cuddle to try and sweeten you up!

Liz

You are seriously deranged Liz.

For a start this rating system is only seven (?) years old anyway so how many "years ago" are you talking about ?

Whenever in NZ has an active and competitive G1 horse like Consensus not made a G1 field ?, she's raced Stolen Dance four times and beaten her three, she's one v one with Volkstoknbarrel ( and was an unlucky loser when he did beat her as you well know ), she's three v one with Authentic Paddy, two v one with Hasslehoof I think, and the only decent horse I can think of that she hasn't beaten is Kawi.....and I doubt he'd worry her much because he'd be busy looking for a saucer of milk.

Your comments are either septic ( because I've been telling the truth about that degenerated shithole you call home, aka Trentham, and the way your club has been driven into the ground by appalling management and a complete lack of vision ) or you're really so ignorant and so far detached from reality that you believe what you wrote.

Whichever it is it's a tragic indictment of you as a person, and what you've become, and remarkably you're mimicking your club as you both degenerate into oblivion.

Time to move on Liz, you've lost the plot and NZ racing doesn't need pale, stale, senile old men who're dragging the industry down to their level. 

Over and out, but before I go Echezeaux will beat Bloodstream tomorrow, that's a 78 rated mare who's never won a race out of the 75 grade, and who's only had one start in open company, who'll beat a male horse who couldn't win a race in the NI, who was a maidener at the start of this campaign, who hasn't won an open race, and has had one placing from his two open company starts.....and you senile demented delusional fucking idiots from the WRC are kidding yourselves that this is any sort of a credible race !!!!

No wonder NZ and the WRC are both fucked.

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I have been following Wellington Cup races since Red Eagle was a dead set cert in 1958.

So, imagine my surprise when I saw that a horse, weighted 5 kg below the top weight, ran second in the, get this, Greymouth Cup, and it is rated top weight at Trentham.

Sacre bleu.

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19 hours ago, Insider said:

I think it's all about the ratings which are flawed. 

A few years ago a R93 horse wouldn't be in a Group One let alone win it!

The ratings of all the horses in the Cup tomorrow are crap but the horses are not that bad, as Heuy has pointed out. 

Its a good betting race with lots of chances and it should be a great spectacle on a great track and surface. 

Leo, please don't come back with your worn out cliches about spec savers. Save it for another day or come back tomorrow with "I told you so" if you think the outcome warrants it.

Its a shame that you are not going to be on-course tomorrow as I would give you a cuddle to try and sweeten you up!

Liz

His material is old & crumpy & like him in desperate need of botox.

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