Class 1 races.

[JETSUN 100]

Was surprised to see CHCH card a full 12 race program of C1 for their low grade meeting today. No maidens. Obviously we have a big problem and it is not just the quality of the dogs. anyway our current welfare regime requires us to give all dogs the chance to race. 

At least today there are no maidens to upgrade to C1, but I wonder if the biggest problem is the grading or downgrading rules. Dogs downgrade so fast today that we find previously C4 & C5 dogs back down in C1. Maybe down grading should stop at C2. Maybe all dogs only get 1 win in C1.

Would be interested in the current thinking of other trainers, thinking of the betterment of the sport, not of the effect on their pocket.

Gordon Wilson.

[GOM 1,017]

The downgrading can only worked properly if there is only one win at class1. As I have had before most people try to double up in class one with the two win scenario allowing the trainer to sort of double dip twice. Common sense tells you that this will always lead to a bottlenck at that area.

     I think the imports often look forward to this situation to instantly recoup costs even if it doesn't always work out.

    Asking trainers to think of the betterment of the sport and not their pocket is akin to asking Donald Trump to consider the rest of the world before himself.

I remember Brian Hunt arguing many years at an AGM that class 0 and 1 should be reserved for the babies and inexperienced dogs and the newly initiated should not have to cope with battle hardened veterans that have won 20 starts or more. I voted against that on behalf of the club I represented but it makes a lot of sense

   We are determined to provide every dog a start whenever they want one or are worthy of one but in that determination often penalise the worthiest of a start (those at the top of the tree). The whole scenario has turned upside down where there was a huge push to discourage local breeding which worked apart from a few who are still are determined to rule by numbers. Now we have Craig saying the answer to the obvious consequence of this is to hurry the imports through. What have we come to? A pseudo industry trying to please everyone with a carp and actually pleasing very few.

   The furure of the sport in NZ is obviously with imports, is that right, who knows, most of the trainers are either totally or semi dependant on them now and I must admit it is a far easier road  to success to get dogs already tried and ready to go but it has nevr appealed to me.

 

[Hound Fan 577]

Common Mike positive comments only please....

[Hound Fan 577]

Remember some people's positive comments are negative to you and some other people's negative comments are positive to others....so who makes the call

[I know 150]

8 hours ago, JETSUN said:

Was surprised to see CHCH card a full 12 race program of C1 for their low grade meeting today. No maidens. Obviously we have a big problem and it is not just the quality of the dogs. anyway our current welfare regime requires us to give all dogs the chance to race. 

At least today there are no maidens to upgrade to C1, but I wonder if the biggest problem is the grading or downgrading rules. Dogs downgrade so fast today that we find previously C4 & C5 dogs back down in C1. Maybe down grading should stop at C2. Maybe all dogs only get 1 win in C1.

Would be interested in the current thinking of other trainers, thinking of the betterment of the sport, not of the effect on their pocket.

Gordon Wilson.

This has been the case tuesday at Chch is normally always c1s . C0 race Friday . I'm struggling to see your point. We have always seen c5 dogs downgrade back to c1 most will win a few more and get back to c3 some go all the way  back to c5 . Great for the punter the owner the trainer and the sport I would say. 

[GOM 1,017]

15 hours ago, Hound Fan said:

Common Mike positive comments only please....

I'm not that common Steve in fact a one of,which many will thank God for.

I tried to be factual and expressing an opinion on the worth of floods of imports could be either or but I take your point about positve v negative being subjective. The scenario's I put forward would mean that you fit in both camps of importer and and you have certainly been successful on the local breeding scene.

   People like the Cleeves and Gary Harding are similar. Gary Cleeve rejuvinated a failing career in the industry with imports and now would arguably be the one of the most successful NZ breeders (of dogs) of all time. Gary Harding went hard out on the importing but morphed into another with with a string of the very best locally bred dogs that doesn't look like stopping. Both of these have been able to produce dogs that are more than competitive with the best imports, All power to them and great for the sport although it is strange with that success the latter still see's the need to import.

[legs&lashes 188]

Mike you will see if you rer read Steves post it was him that mentioned to hurry the imports through.

What he is saying is that the Northern region is extremely short of dog numbers and there are im ports sitting in kennels that would help fill fields that cant start because of this ridiculous "qouta' system that has been implemented.

Its a choice as to what people prefer to do re breeding ,buying ,or importing and they have the right to have that choice.

People that say there is a breeding "industry" in NZ are wrong as there are a very small number of LPs that breed in any great quantity and they do so mainly to race their own stock.The greyhound industry relies on local bred stock and stock from Australia to fill the fields and thats the way it has always been since the game began adding more and more meetings to the calendar.

One could argue that there is a way larger "cull "rate(by that I mean pups that dont make it to racing due to not being good enough etc) of pups born in NZ than the imports that come over.Im sure the NZGRA will now have up to date figures on this..

[alltheway!!! 640]

5 hours ago, GOM said:

I'm not that common Steve in fact a one of,which many will thank God for.

I tried to be factual and expressing an opinion on the worth of floods of imports could be either or but I take your point about positve v negative being subjective. The scenario's I put forward would mean that you fit in both camps of importer and and you have certainly been successful on the local breeding scene.

   People like the Cleeves and Gary Harding are similar. Gary Cleeve rejuvinated a failing career in the industry with imports and now would arguably be the one of the most successful NZ breeders (of dogs) of all time. Gary Harding went hard out on the importing but morphed into another with with a string of the very best locally bred dogs that doesn't look like stopping. Both of these have been able to produce dogs that are more than competitive with the best imports, All power to them and great for the sport although it is strange with that success the latter still see's the need to import.

It does help when your line is one of the most lucrative lines on either side of the Tasman. 

[GOM 1,017]

4 hours ago, legs&lashes said:

Mike you will see if you rer read Steves post it was him that mentioned to hurry the imports through.

Sorry about that Craig,

[Hound Fan 577]

10 hours ago, GOM said:

I'm not that common Steve in fact a one of,which many will thank God for.

I tried to be factual and expressing an opinion on the worth of floods of imports could be either or but I take your point about positve v negative being subjective. The scenario's I put forward would mean that you fit in both camps of importer and and you have certainly been successful on the local breeding scene.

   People like the Cleeves and Gary Harding are similar. Gary Cleeve rejuvinated a failing career in the industry with imports and now would arguably be the one of the most successful NZ breeders (of dogs) of all time. Gary Harding went hard out on the importing but morphed into another with with a string of the very best locally bred dogs that doesn't look like stopping. Both of these have been able to produce dogs that are more than competitive with the best imports, All power to them and great for the sport although it is strange with that success the latter still see's the need to import.

Sorry Mike my statement was tounge in  cheek.....but positive v negative I do believe it's in the eyes off the believer and no way do I think you are common....that what happens when you know what you are saying but put it down wrong.......you are right about imports,we have gone great with both but when the sport becomes your total income sometimes the cost off breeding can kill you if you keep the whole litter and there is no other income and you breed 3 litters at once and that's where the imports keep you going.....not many people want to sell a race dog with ability in nz...and if the whole litter you have breed becomes average you have spent 60k over 2yrs  × 3 and you struggle to recoup it....we have won 4 group ones with our own breed which we are proud off but without the imports in between we could not have survived ...and by the way with numbers over the years I think you  and linda would rank in the top echelon  as  breeders in this country....

[GOM 1,017]

Fair enough Steve, I speak from a minor position just stating my preference, if I was depending on them for a living I would probably have to think differently.

[alltheway!!! 640]

Apparently there were people on Sunday at Auckland complaining we have not got enough C1 318m sprints because 3-4 of them a meeting aren't enough. No wonder nz greyhounds is in regression with thinking like that. 

[JETSUN 100]

4 hours ago, alltheway!!! said:

Apparently there were people on Sunday at Auckland complaining we have not got enough C1 318m sprints because 3-4 of them a meeting aren't enough. No wonder nz greyhounds is in regression with thinking like that. 

Your statement is incorrect. What was actually discussed was a suggestion that maybe the northern area needed a weekly low grade meeting.

[alltheway!!! 640]

16 minutes ago, JETSUN said:

Your statement is incorrect. What was actually discussed was a suggestion that maybe the northern area needed a weekly low grade meeting.

Well that makes sense. Although I doubt there are enough dogs up north to have 3 meetings, especially when it takes alot of effort to get two meetings up North a week

[JETSUN 100]

20 hours ago, alltheway!!! said:

Well that makes sense. Although I doubt there are enough dogs up north to have 3 meetings, especially when it takes alot of effort to get two meetings up North a week

The North Island definitely is in need of a second low grade meeting. Auckland receives more C0/C1 noms than they can cater for. With the Cole/Rendle empire naming 37 new youngsters in the last couple of weeks it looks like another 8 or 9 maiden races are urgently needed to cater for this kennel alone. It makes sense to spread the opportunities around to assist the younger trainers up north to avoid the excessive travelling and costs. This would also enable some existing dogs to get starts and possibly even a second race per week.  

[Slim Shady 479]

On 03/01/2017 at 0:06 PM, JETSUN said:

 

Would it not make more sense that dogs have to get two wins as maidens instead of c1?..this way we would see the dogs (fluking) wins as maidens in 19.40 odd at akl (22.10 odd at waikato) staying in a grade where they are likely to stay for a very long time. c1 is congested due to dogs going up the grades but also coming back through the grades so makes sense (to me and with minimal thought or fact) that making 2 wins in c0 would improve racing quality in the lower grades and ease the burden in c1....at least maiden races in the north would be carded regularly cause trainers would be trying to get 4 wins as a maiden instead of 4 or 5 as a c1?

[WhoKnows 791]

That's about the most sensible thing I think you have ever said Slim, makes sense to me.

[JETSUN 100]

On 2/16/2017 at 4:00 PM, alltheway!!! said:

Well that makes sense. Although I doubt there are enough dogs up north to have 3 meetings, especially when it takes alot of effort to get two meetings up North a week

Well the fields for Monday's low grade meeting at Manukau answers that question. 12 races, 5 each C0 & C1 with 2 C2. All dogs nominated from Northern Kennels. 

[it's a ballroom 174]

Yes but the day before there is only a C1/2 out of the lower grades , the rest are all C3-C5 

[JETSUN 100]

28 minutes ago, it's a ballroom said:

Yes but the day before there is only a C1/2 out of the lower grades , the rest are all C3-C5 

Yes Tony,, but it was advertised as a high grade meeting and the previous statement was if we had an extra lowgrade meeting in the north could we get 12 races. We have achieved that with all Northern dogs. I believe a regular lowgrade meeting, even every second week on say a Tuesday would fill the fields.

[it's a ballroom 174]

I think it's only achieved because of previous day's high graded fields which have mainly been made up because of number of travelling dogs. The idea is good , but the number of times noms are re opened points to not filling up another day's racing ( unless dogs are put round 3 times a week which IMO is not best idea ).

[I know 150]

The meeting today only has 11 races and I see a few cd dogs there 

[alltheway!!! 640]

52 minutes ago, I know said:

The meeting today only has 11 races and I see a few cd dogs there 

And Sundays full of south Island and CD dogs aswell. Do not normally have enough c5 dogs up here to get one race

[Slim Shady 479]

On 22/02/2017 at 8:24 PM, JETSUN said:

Yes Tony,, but it was advertised as a high grade meeting and the previous statement was if we had an extra lowgrade meeting in the north could we get 12 races. We have achieved that with all Northern dogs. I believe a regular lowgrade meeting, even every second week on say a Tuesday would fill the fields.

I do agree however the meeting would have to be at Auckland because unfortunately there seems to be many c1 dogs in the north that cant run 375mtrs (or simply dont get nominated their)...I can remember (vaguely) being told once about 12mths ago that Akl gets approx 100 noms for c1 sprinters per meeting!!!!!....any ideas on why cambridge constantly re opens noms if this is the case? surely there cant be that many dogs out there that cant handle a one turn track or the extra distance? my guess is its stems back to the 2 wins in c1 "bottleneck"..time for a trial run of making it 2 wins in c0, I do believe this will see far better quality fields in the lower grades that will filter onto the higher grades with time...just my opinion on it but something needs to happen and quickly.

[alltheway!!! 640]

If your c1 dog cannot get a start with 4-5 c1 races on a meeting, than you should be thinking about retirement for the dog. Why should we cater for another exciting meeting of exciting c1 sprinters