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Swynford

Vadamos to stand at Rich Hill

52 posts in this topic

16 hours ago, fitzy said:

Fiorente is $16k + GST in Aus, so maybe $15k a bit steep on a compare basis.

Good point about the likes of Fiorente, Americain fees , seems very strange reasoning that Aus buyers are interested in his stock so the fee is set at $15k . 

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I am not agreeing with what the service fee is at all, but one thing that Vadamos does have in my opinion more so than the ones mentioned (Fiorente/Americain) is a real stallions pedigree being out of one of Aga Khans great familys.

Out of a stakes winning mare who is  half to the high class Valixir, and also closely related to high class Aga Khan G1 winning fillies Vazira and Vadawina, the family is full of blacktype.

A gamble at 15K definitely and it is an un-known sireline for southern hemisphere breeders, but does have the backing of some major shareholders including Pencarrow, Valachi Downs, Nearco Stud, Fairway Thoroughbreds etc

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Priced high at $15

more like 10-12k given Australian counterparts 

but syndicated horses get 80 mares before they start and if they have interest from outside then it's only the last few they are selling - and protects their own foals/ share price 

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16 minutes ago, MiDeBo Racing said:

What mares does everyone this bloke would suit??

http://www.richhillstud.co.nz/rich-hill-stallions/vadamos/mating-suggestions

 

This is who Rich Hill recommends as mares that may suit, mares with Northern Dancer obviously look to suit although Vadamos' pedigree is completely unknown in the Southern Hemisphere breeding scene so it is a big question mark

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Is free of Danehill which is a bit of a bonus. Love the Aga Khan's families and I think Vadamos is a great chance. The $15k is a bit steep in a year where there are plenty of new stallions being launched.  

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Lots of new stallions this season, but i do think Vadamos is one of the best new bloods coming and exactly what we need in NZ.

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I am interested in him as Monsun clearly a great sire of stayers. But the thing that makes me nervous as his best form and G1 was as a 5yr old. Not sure I've got enough patience to wait that long!

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Make no bones about it, Monsun was a freak stallion. He suited German and European racing in that generally their tracks are not hard and firm and they allow their horses to mature. Most of their creme de la crème racing is for older horses. As a sire of sires his progeny follow this trend. The likes of Shirroco, Manduro and Getaway were outstanding stayers but their progeny need a lot of time. There are the Maxios and Vadamos types who had a bit more speed and that's hopefully what will happen down under when crossed with our type of mares.

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Have heard a lot of comment to the effect that quite a number of the new kids on the block are a bit pricier than the broodmare owners think they should be ... just putting it out there .....  J

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2 hours ago, jess said:

Have heard a lot of comment to the effect that quite a number of the new kids on the block are a bit pricier than the broodmare owners think they should be ... just putting it out there .....  J

Possibly leaving plenty of room for negotiating ?

But youre right there appear to be some bizarre fees for some of the new guys on the block.

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Could be the Aussie shareholders of these stallions pushing the envelope ...... They appear to have little understanding of the true value (&capacity) of the NZ market.  It's seems Darley have woken up, realised the increased competition and reduced Contributer from $15k to $12.5k for 2017. I believe Tivaci is way over the odds,  followed by Tarzino...but then as we haven seen by the intense (in your face) marketing campaigns by some studs, especially in Aust, they believe their own spin.  So don't get sucked in - offer/pay what you believe is a fair valuation for these new stallions. Alternatively, most tried & tested stallions seem relatively good value compared with the new boys!

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If would seem that the advertised fee and the actual fee may be completely different for stallions at various stages of their stud campaigns. It would seem the key to the actual fee is negotiation

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It seems crazy to me that Tarzino, Vadamos are about $15k and the same price as Darci who has had 30 stakes winners and excellent winners 2 runners. Tivaci even more.

Isn't Darci much better value?

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No. He has shown that his horses aren't good enough to make it in Australia so the largest market has already discounted him. Tarzino won their Derby, Vadamos is by a sire that the Aussies have a love affair with (3 Melbourne Cup winners) and he was a faster version, and Tivaci is a brute of a horse who is a sprinter by a recognised stayer sire (much like Tavistock). Dreams are often more expensive than the holiday.

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Relevant to this thread:

Here is an image I took of ULTRA at Longchamp - he is a son of Manduro (by Monsun) from a Nashwan mare and races for Godolphin.  He won the Gr1 Prix Jean Luc Lagardare - the premier 2yo colt race on Arc day 2015...

Ultra Jean Luc Lagadare.jpg

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Interesting where this guy sits in the market along with Tarzino. It would appear that these stallions might be at a disadvantage of being announced earlier not knowing so many others are coming in.  Not saying they are not worth their service fees, however, with others coming in with similar credentials it would appear that they are on the higher end of the 1st season stallions. Based on last years stallion market you would have to say they were well placed but this year for some reason there are a lot more stallions coming in and a lot more selection.

 

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When will we see mare owners ( of very good mares) asking stallion owners to compete for getting mares to go to their stallions ? Why shouldn't the stallion owner pay to get a good mare for their stallion ? I'm sure there have been cases of a free service but why shouldn't they actually pay real money ?

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45 minutes ago, Breeder said:

When will we see mare owners ( of very good mares) asking stallion owners to compete for getting mares to go to their stallions ? Why shouldn't the stallion owner pay to get a good mare for their stallion ? I'm sure there have been cases of a free service but why shouldn't they actually pay real money ?

I am sure that you will get stallion owners paying for mares to visit their horse if you let THEM keep the foal! Otherwise why would they do it?

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1 hour ago, Insider said:

I am sure that you will get stallion owners paying for mares to visit their horse if you let THEM keep the foal! Otherwise why would they do it?

I think what breeder is saying is that  some mares repeatably leave top horses so it's a way to buy a future for your stallion in those early years.

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"I am sure that you will get stallion owners paying for mares to visit their horse if you let THEM keep the foal! Otherwise why would they do it? "

The mare owner has a valuable asset and the stallion owner believes the same , so it becomes a matter of what is the relative values to each. But more simply, the stallion owner could think it is great promotion to have a high profile mare going to their stallion --eg. what value would you put on being able to say " We have Winx going our stallion  X this year ".

Even a stallion owner who believes that certain types of mares or mares with a particular breeding could help get their stallion "get off the ground" may think it was worthwhile paying even a small amount to get the right mares in the right numbers. It possibly already happens with stallion owners leasing in mares on various deals.

But back to my original questions ( which I put up to promote discussion) --if I owned Winx or some other very good mare I would seriously consider putting her out to tender , maybe a closed tender to the owners of stallions I liked for the mare. It is a very competitive business , especially in Australia where from reading their blogs the Aussies say you are stupid to pay the advertised price for a stallion. All I'm suggesting is why not extend the competition in the other direction.

 

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I briefly spotted a website the other day, didn't have time to look closer, it was Australian, and it was for broodmare owners to list their mare on, and stallion owners could offer a stud fee for the mare. A whole lot of studs were linked to it.

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