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Swynford

Vadamos to stand at Rich Hill

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Interesting stallion and potentially a very good outcross for a lot of NZ mares as he is Danzig/Sadler's Well's/Sir Tristram free, Monsun himself is a complete outcross and the majority of that blood has never been seen down in the Southern Hemisphere.

Good looking horse who was good enough to be a very consistent G1/G2 horse over a mile in France who was capable of performing over further.Damline is a very good Aga Khan family and close up features some very good G1 winners in Valixir, Vadawina, Vazira.

Looking at a lot of Monsun's best performers, a lot do have Northern Dancer lines through the female line and Nijinsky also features so should suit a lot of the mares down here.

Interesting thing is to see what they price him at, If he is priced reasonably should have a good chance (does have NZ backing in the ownership of Pencarrow Stud/Nearco Stud/Valachi Downs/Rich Hill)

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36 minutes ago, BruceL said:

Interesting stallion and potentially a very good outcross for a lot of NZ mares as he is Danzig/Sadler's Well's/Sir Tristram free, Monsun himself is a complete outcross and the majority of that blood has never been seen down in the Southern Hemisphere.

Good looking horse who was good enough to be a very consistent G1/G2 horse over a mile in France who was capable of performing over further.Damline is a very good Aga Khan family and close up features some very good G1 winners in Valixir, Vadawina, Vazira.

Looking at a lot of Monsun's best performers, a lot do have Northern Dancer lines through the female line and Nijinsky also features so should suit a lot of the mares down here.

Interesting thing is to see what they price him at, If he is priced reasonably should have a good chance (does have NZ backing in the ownership of Pencarrow Stud/Nearco Stud/Valachi Downs/Rich Hill)

$15k or 17.5k max ?

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4 minutes ago, Huey said:

$15k or 17.5k max ?

I would think $12.5k - 15K maximum, looking at his record (has only won one Group 1 from 6 attempts) he shouldn't be anything more than that if priced fairly, it is a bit of a gamble for breeders with his sireline and hopefully they price him right.

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It looks like a shuttle arrangement. According to the Pedigree Query site Tally-Ho Stud bought a major stake in him, in October 2016.

Given his progeny are likely to need time I would think they would need to keep the fee reasonably low to attract a good number of mares.

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5 hours ago, Breeder said:

It looks like a shuttle arrangement. According to the Pedigree Query site Tally-Ho Stud bought a major stake in him, in October 2016.

Given his progeny are likely to need time I would think they would need to keep the fee reasonably low to attract a good number of mares.

I'd think the talk of $15 above is DREAMING.

more like 8-10, 10 max.

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6 hours ago, Dopey said:

Absolutely over priced at that ...

What do you think $17.5k prices him at?

 

i love monsun 

I thought he might be priced around the likes of Fiorente & Americain. Hope youre right & he is reasonably priced.

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2 hours ago, Nasrullah said:

I agree that $8 to $10k is where he should be.

Fiorente and Protectionist as sons of Monsun who won the Melbourne Cup may have suited New Zealand better.

I also think they had better race records.

Often winning an MC isn't necessary a good tick on a stud career.

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Were can I find his pedigree page set out catalogue style?

The news release says that he is the best bred Monsun from one of the Aga Khan's best families.

I want to see for myself and I am particularly interested to see what his mother did on the racetrack. 

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16 minutes ago, Insider said:

Were can I find his pedigree page set out catalogue style?

The news release says that he is the best bred Monsun from one of the Aga Khan's best families.

I want to see for myself and I am particularly interested to see what his mother did on the racetrack. 

http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/0911vadamos.pdf

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His pedigree is now available on Arion pedigrees.

Have had a look at other sire sons of Monsun and they have done nothing near what Monsun has done.

My previous point about preferring Protectionist or Fiorente is because they were very good and much better than the best at 2400 to 3200m. They had a turn of foot. Monsun was a very good 2400m horse.

Vadamos seemed to be best at a mile and raced on the lead in his two Australian runs.

So at a choice over a mile we have three stallions who placed 2nd in the Australian Guineas who I have previously commented on are great value (Proisir, Sweynesse, El Roca) or the best mile option stallion Sacred Falls.

 

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Nasrullah said:

 

So at a choice over a mile we have three stallions who placed 2nd in the Australian Guineas who I have previously commented on are great value (Proisir, Sweynesse, El Roca) or the best mile option stallion Sacred Falls.

 

 

 

Randwick Guineas I think you are meaning

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Interesting comparisons you make with the likes of Sweynesse/El Roca/Proisir as they are all modestly priced and G1 placed milers at 3 in Australia, a big thing is they are by proven stallions in Australasian conditions. Even Charm Spirit's (much better race record) sireline and broodmare sires are proven down here, that is why Vadamos can be considered a big gamble for breeders as he is from a completely unproven sireline (in Southern Hemisphere) .

I really do hope they price Vadamos competitively otherwise why would you take the risk/gamble on him when the sireline is much more 2400m +, and completely unproven with NZ mares. Vadamos himself is more recognised as a miler and we have a wide range of 1600m-2000m stallions proven at g1 level from $5,000 up to a higher range.

I do like Vadamos and elements of his pedigree and think he could be successful , but huge risk for breeders and a well priced service fee could assist in getting this stallion numbers

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This might seem like a silly comment, but I wonder if they considered giving him a couple of starts in NZ? I know he has to shuttle back to Ireland. If he is any good he could easily have popped over to NZ and picked up a couple of group ones which you would think would help his appeal and exposure in NZ.  Probably shows they don't rate NZ racing that highly.

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14 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:

This might seem like a silly comment, but I wonder if they considered giving him a couple of starts in NZ? I know he has to shuttle back to Ireland. If he is any good he could easily have popped over to NZ and picked up a couple of group ones which you would think would help his appeal and exposure in NZ.  Probably shows they don't rate NZ racing that highly.

Probably a bit silly!,

To be fair the horse has been in work for nearly a year, needs a break and is going straight to Ireland to stand their season before shuttling to NZ,  and if breeder's can't judge him on Cox Plate form I would be concerned!

Edited by BruceL

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I can't see him attracting mares if over 10k. Staying stallions equal another 1-2 years training costs for owners and at 30k per annum, you wouldn't pay more than 10k in my view. Interesting that Americain started at stud in Australia at 12k from memory. I am interested to see his full tabulated pedigree and family record though.

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Half that fee would have been more sensible in his first season as his unproven sire line down under may be a risk.

I think their sire Shocking is a better bet. As you say must have plenty of shareholders with mares or are they negotiable behind the scenes.

Someone needs to be the front man to  approach studs and negotiate a much reduced fee for say 20 mares to their stallion. They can then tout for that number of mares to broodmare owners and sign them up. Why someone hasn't thought of such a scheme surprises me even if it was done for a small fee either from the stud or incorporated in the reduced service.

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