Manawatu Race 4 - shocker!!

[Guest]

Let's get serious here now.

The Stipes in this country need to get real.

A. Lowe and then A Fitzgerald seriously punished for what the Stipes considered were serious breaches. One got a major holiday and the other a junior $400 for trying too hard.

Race 4 at Manawatu last night, Geoff Martin driving Danke didn't try an inch in the straight.

Blatantly obvious and you would think that if the above two who were hammered on the spot then Geoff Martin would be on the sideline and fined by now!!!!!

But NO, the Stipes or Judiciary couldn't decide or tell from their viewing whether it was bad or not to punish or not, until after viewing additional footage and adjourned until the second night.

For christs sake any Seriously mostly blind person can clearly see that Martin had blatantly not given his horse every chance by basically just sitting on it in the straight and showing next to no vigour whatsoever.

The harness industry is seriously in a bad way at the moment with the Stipes and JCA making stuff ups after stuff up!

I know there will be some that will have a go at "The Brodster" but don't care as I am here to point out that unfairness and inequalities that has crept into the industry.

 

[OzPunter 7]

41 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Let's get serious here now.

The Stipes in this country need to get real.

A. Lowe and then A Fitzgerald seriously punished for what the Stipes considered were serious breaches. One got a major holiday and the other a junior $400 for trying too hard.

Race 4 at Manawatu last night, Geoff Martin driving Danke didn't try an inch in the straight.

Blatantly obvious and you would think that if the above two who were hammered on the spot then Geoff Martin would be on the sideline and fined by now!!!!!

But NO, the Stipes or Judiciary couldn't decide or tell from their viewing whether it was bad or not to punish or not, until after viewing additional footage and adjourned until the second night.

For christs sake any Seriously mostly blind person can clearly see that Martin had blatantly not given his horse every chance by basically just sitting on it in the straight and showing next to no vigour whatsoever.

The harness industry is seriously in a bad way at the moment with the Stipes and JCA making stuff ups after stuff up!

I know there will be some that will have a go at "The Brodster" but don't care as I am here to point out that unfairness and inequalities that has crept into the industry.

 

I was just about to write about this race after watching it.

He clearly anchored himself for 2nd in his Trifectas and First Fours.

If he doesnt get an extended holiday for that I dont know why we even have Stipes. Should be many months minimum. He's a serial offender and its about time the stipes did something about it

[Happy Sunrise 554]

I watched the replay. Thought it didn't seem to be very vigorous!

So went through Danke's previous races to see what he was driven like. I don't think it is an open and shut case.

The drive appears consistent with how he has been driven before. Seems the horse is driven quietly on bends, then only likes the reins being thrown at it. Whip doesn't seem an option apart from 2 cracks in a race at Cambridge. 

However, he has driven the horse more aggressively, comparatively speaking - lots of rein throwing and the 2 cracks!, than he did last night though it is hard to see near the end of the race how hard he tried due to the outside horse covering him up.

I agree with stipes that they need different angles.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

I watched the replay. Thought it didn't seem to be very vigorous!

So went through Danke's previous races to see what he was driven like. I don't think it is an open and shut case.

The drive appears consistent with how he has been driven before. Seems the horse is driven quietly on bends, then only likes the reins being thrown at it. Whip doesn't seem an option apart from 2 cracks in a race at Cambridge. 

However, he has driven the horse more aggressively, comparatively speaking - lots of rein throwing and the 2 cracks!, than he did last night though it is hard to see near the end of the race how hard he tried due to the outside horse covering him up.

I agree with stipes that they need different angles.

Fair comments Happy.

The thing is though that Geoff Martin drove the horse not giving the horse the best possible chance of winning.

It took him all day in the straight to decide to pull plugs and even use the whip and doubt the whip,even touched Danke and he only just missed.

How can a competent stipe system not be able to make a decision on the spot from camera evidence.

If he had shown vigour 100 metres earlier it would have won for sure but he is only interested in running for places and not winning!    

How can any punter have confidence in the system when there are so many inconsistencies going on!!!!!

Great to see you blogging because there are plenty of people reading but not many putting their opinions on.

 

 

[Happy Sunrise 554]

Brodie,

I have learnt (and sometimes continue to do so) that making quick decisions over serious matters is never very good.

Throwing the book at Geoff Martin immediately is inappropriate if they feel the evidence is insufficient at the present time. The stipes have a responsibility to industry participant's, eg drivers, to protect them.

Of course, the punters need protecting too but it is more important to be fair to everyone involved in the game.

 

[Guest]

16 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

Brodie,

I have learnt (and sometimes continue to do so) that making quick decisions over serious matters is never very good.

Throwing the book at Geoff Martin immediately is inappropriate if they feel the evidence is insufficient at the present time. The stipes have a responsibility to industry participant's, eg drivers, to protect them.

Of course, the punters need protecting too but it is more important to be fair to everyone involved in the game.

 

Couldn't agree more.

Thats why A Fitzgerald got hammered $400 or would have been 3 months suspension and Rober Argue got 1 day suspension for a worse performance.

Consistent NOT!

[Happy Sunrise 554]

Just now, Brodie said:

Couldn't agree more.

Thats why A Fitzgerald got hammered $400 or would have been 3 months suspension and Rober Argue got 1 day suspension for a worse performance.

Consistent NOT!

 

unfortunately, still doesn't mean they always get it right........

I have more chance of winning $38 million in lotto this weekend than ever seeing consistency in stipe's decisions! 

[tonkatime 323]

Thankfully because you are a restricted punter you wouldn't have been able to have a bet on the horse so you aren't out of pocket Brodie. 

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, tonkatime said:

Thankfully because you are a restricted punter you wouldn't have been able to have a bet on the horse so you aren't out of pocket Brodie. 

Tonkatime.

It is the principle that I am concerned with.

They call it the RACING INTEGRITY UNIT?

No I didn't back it as I have virtually given the punting away as it is now not worth my time.

Problem is finding something to fill in the time now!

[We're Doomed 4,866]

They did get rid of the head stipe who knew something about trotting for a sight misdemeanour outside of trotting.

[hsvman 294]

Taken a long time for them to question his drives on this horse 

[what a post 811]

Bit tough to criticize them just because they take a bit of time to build a case,not looking good for martin though.  What did wayne higgs get for a similar drive at manawatu a few years ago?  Maybe martin will take a lead from higgs and claim  he strained a muscle which prevented the use of the whip?     What about race 5 at Auckland.  Z butcher hits the wheel of a horse that supposedly moved out a bit.  Ive watched this several times and cant see why this explanation was accepted.     

[Guest]

1 hour ago, what a post said:

Bit tough to criticize them just because they take a bit of time to build a case,not looking good for martin though.  What did wayne higgs get for a similar drive at manawatu a few years ago?  Maybe martin will take a lead from higgs and claim  he strained a muscle which prevented the use of the whip?     What about race 5 at Auckland.  Z butcher hits the wheel of a horse that supposedly moved out a bit.  Ive watched this several times and cant see why this explanation was accepted.     

Not too sure what sort of a case you need to build?

It is there to see on the camera isn't it?

Open and shut case I would have thought and should,have been suspended there and then and yet he is still allowed to drive the horse again tonight!

Ridiculous!!!

[gubellini 4,004]

Even though Danke was having his 127th start like a lot of trotters if you put the whip on him he is liable to go into a break. Hope you Geoff Martin baggers did not back him tonight! Muffed the start badly and finished fourth 14 and 1/4 lengths from the winner! 

[Guest]

We are not bagging Geoff Martin!

All we are saying is he should have been suspended for that first night drive when you consider A Fitzgerald getting done for trying too hard.

 

[Toblerone 242]

Geoff Martin deserves bagging for disgraceful conduct. 

[WhoKnows 791]

And how about Soldier as well.

Lined up twice on the first night, and twice again tonight but racing under McCaffrey/Paynter name and colours?

Surely they just didn't entrust him with the drives on the horse, presumably he is and has been training the horse for a while, the poor thing, lucky he wasn't eligible for 3 races tonight or he would have been sent around again.

[Shad 1,558]

Scott dickson got a decent old fine too, i see, just as well all our senior drivers hardly ever guilty of a bad drive, just a warning for them, at worst, although john dunn got suspended at kaikoura, only a short one, couldn't possibly miss a cup drive. I think the battlers are a revenue stream to boost the coffers. But not driving out horses deserves to be punished, as the punter misses out.

[Happy Sunrise 554]

You lot need some patience....they will get him if they have to.

This is from last night's stipes report

Supplementary:

Manawatu HRC - Thursday, 3rd November 2016

Race 4 - EQUIVET HANDICAP TROT

After viewing additional replay footage an Information was filed charging Mr Martin under Rule 868(1) in that he caused or permitted his gelding to be run other than on its merits as a result of his actions and/or lack of actions over the final 200 metres and/or Rule 868(2) in that he failed to take all reasonable and permissible measures over the final 200 metres to ensure his gelding was given full opportunity to win the race. The JCA adjourned the matter with a date and venue to be fixed.

 

[JackSprat 947]

Amazing that they took days to charge the guy. His intentions couldn't have been much more obvious in the home straight!

In the last decade he's driven 9 winners and 53 placings. It's pretty obvious what is business plan is!

[Happy Sunrise 554]

Interesting on the A T Lowe thread a junior driver is congratulated for a quiet drive on a trotter up the straight. Even got a like.

'No jumping up in the cart or shaking the reins just urging the horse on which was giving its best. A very good drive reminiscent of how Dexter urges them on'

Geoff Martin drove his trotter quietly and many are jumping up and down how he should be chucked out immediately without trial despite driving the trotter quietly all the time. Maybe that is the way Danke needs to be driven?? Maybe that is what Danke looks like when giving its best??

One could also argue the stipes are not picking on a 'little guy' in the game. I thought they did, according to some posters on here.

I am backing the stipes for what they are doing on this one.

I 

 

 

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Happy Sunrise said:

Interesting on the A T Lowe thread a junior driver is congratulated for a quiet drive on a trotter up the straight. Even got a like.

'No jumping up in the cart or shaking the reins just urging the horse on which was giving its best. A very good drive reminiscent of how Dexter urges them on'

Geoff Martin drove his trotter quietly and many are jumping up and down how he should be chucked out immediately without trial despite driving the trotter quietly all the time. Maybe that is the way Danke needs to be driven?? Maybe that is what Danke looks like when giving its best??

One could also argue the stipes are not picking on a 'little guy' in the game. I thought they did, according to some posters on here.

I am backing the stipes for what they are doing on this one.

I 

 

 

Sorry Happy, this one we disagree on.

The Stipes around the country are all on different wave lengths and are treating Drivers differently.

Think they should be unified in their actions but they are blatantly treating differently.

Had Geoff Martin shown any sort of urgency on Danke there is no doubt he would've won on the first night, but he didn't want to win.

Andrew Fitzgerald showed true urgency to win and he gets hammered on the spot.

Robert Argue stuffed up majorly and he effectively got one day suspension.

There are many other instances of unfair treatment to some and preferential treatment to others!

[Happy Sunrise 554]

28 minutes ago, Brodie said:

Sorry Happy, this one we disagree on.

The Stipes around the country are all on different wave lengths and are treating Drivers differently.

Think they should be unified in their actions but they are blatantly treating differently.

Had Geoff Martin shown any sort of urgency on Danke there is no doubt he would've won on the first night, but he didn't want to win.

Andrew Fitzgerald showed true urgency to win and he gets hammered on the spot.

Robert Argue stuffed up majorly and he effectively got one day suspension.

There are many other instances of unfair treatment to some and preferential treatment to others!

 

I think in a roundabout way we actually agree.

I think the stipes should take their time in dishing out punishments. That way they will be more consistent and fair decisions.

I don't know what the hurry is.

 

[hsvman 294]

http://harness.hrnz.co.nz/gws/ws/r/infohorsews/wsd06x?Arg=hrnzg-Ptype&Arg=RaceVideo&Arg=hrnzg-RacehdrID&Arg=230778

 

This race clearly shows when he wants to the horse can be hit or chased up 

[Guest]

This weeks HARNESS EXPRESS has given the"brickbat of the week" to Geoff Martin for his pathetic efforts.

I suggest everyone on here that disagrees with "the Brodster" needs to read that article before having another go at me.

Yes you can call me "the Authority" "know it all " etc. but I think you will find that "the Brodster" is mostly on the money.