Bruce J Hadley 15 Report post Posted August 18, 2016 Now, I dont know much about how they frame the market, or how they end up with the pricing. Maybe someone can enlighten me. In the race just gone at Cambridge, EVERY single horse is paying way more on the tote place odds, than in the fixed odds. Something doesnt seem right Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GONSTA 1,148 Report post Posted August 18, 2016 Tote paid 2 divs, FF place paid out on top 3. Bruce J Hadley and richie 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce J Hadley 15 Report post Posted August 18, 2016 35 minutes ago, GONSTA said: Tote paid 2 divs, FF place paid out on top 3. Ahhh..Thanks for that. I didnt know Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racing84 254 Report post Posted August 18, 2016 Yes they seem to have changed from FF Place, to Top 3 finish, so that the fixed always pays out 3 place dividends and the tote 2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Report post Posted August 19, 2016 Correct, but they certainly haven't improved the place odds that they are offering whether there is 5 in the field or 15. Massive unders all day now. Would like to know whether many are actually investing early as there is not much value. Also, people on restrictions have been restricted even more so that hardly worth the effort now to be honest! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popcorn Player 51 Report post Posted August 20, 2016 How bad were their fixed odds last night? Even before the website wasn't showing the correct odds. Thank god for betfair Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Report post Posted August 20, 2016 13 minutes ago, Popcorn Player said: How bad were their fixed odds last night? Even before the website wasn't showing the correct odds. Thank god for betfair Popcorn, harness odds are short everyday now. I can not see the point the TAB bringing them out early if they haven't got a Bookie that has got any ability to back his judgement! All he or she does is make them grossly under fair value. even when the race starts the fixed odds are all under the tote odds except the ones that have little chance that no one will back anyway. Surely they can do better? give the punter a fair go and therefore increase turnover and it will increase the TABs profit and help the industry and not the execs pay. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sickopunter 403 Report post Posted August 20, 2016 Just a way for them to further hide their disgraceful odds. The fact that they wont even let owners have a decent bet on their own horses shows how short sighted they are. They provide the product. Leakage is an issue largely of their own making. See you all on Betfair. Mt Smart Cats 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivanthegreat 1,123 Report post Posted August 20, 2016 Time to vote with your feet n0 Popcorn Player 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mt Smart Cats 15 Report post Posted August 20, 2016 On 18 August 2016 at 7:49 PM, Bruce J Hadley said: Now, I dont know much about how they frame the market, or how they end up with the pricing. Maybe someone can enlighten me. In the race just gone at Cambridge, EVERY single horse is paying way more on the tote place odds, than in the fixed odds. Something doesnt seem right 122% and 135% 3 place dividends FF. 119% and 120% 2 place dividends Tote. All things being equal that's a nice profit margin for the tab on both totes. Combine that market with their ability to restrict and therefore mitigate risk and it seems like a great money spinner. Obviously long term 100% is break even punter/tote. The tab have substantial overheads to cover as well as a % in profit for both themselves and industry pay outs. To compare to Betfair is very difficult given the difference in structure but if you are serious about having a little dabble then clearly you should be using it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Report post Posted August 20, 2016 55 minutes ago, Mt Smart Cats said: 122% and 135% 3 place dividends FF. 119% and 120% 2 place dividends Tote. All things being equal that's a nice profit margin for the tab on both totes. Combine that market with their ability to restrict and therefore mitigate risk and it seems like a great money spinner. Obviously long term 100% is break even punter/tote. The tab have substantial overheads to cover as well as a % in profit for both themselves and industry pay outs. To compare to Betfair is very difficult given the difference in structure but if you are serious about having a little dabble then clearly you should be using it. Off course they have overheads like any business. Why continue to shaft the punters though by restrictions that are so pathetic now and by having the fixed odds at such unattractive levels. Having punters restricted to being able to only net $1000 in this day and age is criminal and not a fair go!!!!! All this is doing is driving the customers away whether it is by not punting at all or going overseas. What are the substantial overheads that the TAB has in regards to odds being provided by the Bookies? Wages for a few bookies a computer or two and TV screens, hardly substantial! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Report post Posted August 20, 2016 This mornings fixed odds place at Gore have the TAB with them set at around 420 per cent for 3 place divideds. This in my calculations has the per centage at 40 per cent over fair odds does it not? Ridiculous isn't it or do some think this is fair and worth investing on? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mt Smart Cats 15 Report post Posted August 20, 2016 3 minutes ago, Brodie said: Off course they have overheads like any business. Why continue to shaft the punters though by restrictions that are so pathetic now and by having the fixed odds at such unattractive levels. Having punters restricted to being able to only net $1000 in this day and age is criminal and not a fair go!!!!! All this is doing is driving the customers away whether it is by not punting at all or going overseas. What are the substantial overheads that the TAB has in regards to odds being provided by the Bookies? Wages for a few bookies a computer or two and TV screens, hardly substantial! I agree with everything you are saying except for the overheads. $190mill in expenses for NZRB to conduct racing in NZ. $53mill is directly associated to turnover expenses. Of the $140mill in profit $130 gets spread to the 3 racing codes $10 mill in the kitty. From a punters point of view to create those sort of distributions means you are always going to get shafted at the counter when collecting. I personally agree that the tab offer shit fixed odds but I'm not a big punter and I have accounts with a few different corporates/bookies in Aus although you don't find much better in terms of NZ trotting odds. Like I said previously if you are a serious punter then Betfair is the way to go. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Report post Posted August 20, 2016 8 minutes ago, Mt Smart Cats said: I agree with everything you are saying except for the overheads. $190mill in expenses for NZRB to conduct racing in NZ. $53mill is directly associated to turnover expenses. Of the $140mill in profit $130 gets spread to the 3 racing codes $10 mill in the kitty. From a punters point of view to create those sort of distributions means you are always going to get shafted at the counter when collecting. I personally agree that the tab offer shit fixed odds but I'm not a big punter and I have accounts with a few different corporates/bookies in Aus although you don't find much better in terms of NZ trotting odds. Like I said previously if you are a serious punter then Betfair is the way to go. Fair reply but what I am talking about is Fixed Odds solely, the odds need to be better to attract money. Yes there are costs that they have for operating the TAB for all betting including tote. The reality is that the fixed odds that really only came out in say the last 4 to 5 years does not cost a heck of a lot more money in operating costs to run than if they didn't have them. That is if they did away with the bookies the operating costs would be bugger all less. The TABs business plan is seriously flawed and is doing much harm to the industry in general. Drive away the big punters and all you have are the small punters and they cost more to administer. Turnover needs to be increased and yes they will pay out to winning punters but if the odds are fair there will be many losing ones as well and that means increased profit for NZ racing rather than losing it overseas, or is that what they want? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mt Smart Cats 15 Report post Posted August 20, 2016 7 minutes ago, Brodie said: Fair reply but what I am talking about is Fixed Odds solely, the odds need to be better to attract money. Yes there are costs that they have for operating the TAB for all betting including tote. The reality is that the fixed odds that really only came out in say the last 4 to 5 years does not cost a heck of a lot more money in operating costs to run than if they didn't have them. That is if they did away with the bookies the operating costs would be bugger all less. The TABs business plan is seriously flawed and is doing much harm to the industry in general. Drive away the big punters and all you have are the small punters and they cost more to administer. Turnover needs to be increased and yes they will pay out to winning punters but if the odds are fair there will be many losing ones as well and that means increased profit for NZ racing rather than losing it overseas, or is that what they want? Can you open accounts with the corporates in Aus from NZ?? Excluding Betfair. I opened mine while living in Aus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mt Smart Cats 15 Report post Posted August 20, 2016 27 minutes ago, Brodie said: This mornings fixed odds place at Gore have the TAB with them set at around 420 per cent for 3 place divideds. This in my calculations has the per centage at 40 per cent over fair odds does it not? Ridiculous isn't it or do some think this is fair and worth investing on? This can't be right. Think your calculations must be off.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mt Smart Cats 15 Report post Posted August 20, 2016 Just now, Mt Smart Cats said: This can't be right. Think your calculations must be off.... 29 minutes ago, Brodie said: This mornings fixed odds place at Gore have the TAB with them set at around 420 per cent for 3 place divideds. This in my calculations has the per centage at 40 per cent over fair odds does it not? Ridiculous isn't it or do some think this is fair and worth investing on? Actually I misinterpreted this. So you are saying 140% with 3 place divies? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Report post Posted August 20, 2016 2 minutes ago, Mt Smart Cats said: This can't be right. Think your calculations must be off.... 420 per cent or thereabouts is what they have been opening the place at for quite awhile now.. Add them up and they come to 420 for 3 divs so that is 120 over 300 per cent so in my calculations that is a percentage of 40 per cent over fair market value! Ridiculous isn't it and they expect people to invest? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sickopunter 403 Report post Posted August 21, 2016 On 21/08/2016 at 11:02 AM, Mt Smart Cats said: Actually I misinterpreted this. So you are saying 140% with 3 place divies? Would be x3. So 420% I would imagine Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...