RaceCafe..#1...Tipsters Thread.... Share Your Fancies For Fun...Lets See Who The Best Tipsters Here Are.
Ohokaman

One way to increase stakes....

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WTF has the foal crop got to do with it given that most of the foals are being bred to be sold, and selling horses is the only thing keeping the game going, probably because it's the only thing NZTR can't control or fuck up.

If numbers of runners is the issue Matt then stop crucifying the males horses with your fucked up handicapping model, stop forcing the older males out of the game, incentivise all horses to race, bring back free racing, and stop subsidising the breeders with your 200+ girls only races.

It's not that hard Matt.

 

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4 hours ago, Midget said:

WTF has the foal crop got to do with it given that most of the foals are being bred to be sold, and selling horses is the only thing keeping the game going, probably because it's the only thing NZTR can't control or fuck up.

If numbers of runners is the issue Matt then stop crucifying the males horses with your fucked up handicapping model, stop forcing the older males out of the game, incentivise all horses to race, bring back free racing, and stop subsidising the breeders with your 200+ girls only races.

It's not that hard Matt.

 

Exactly. It's been bleedin' obvious for years. Field sizes will maintain themselves with sensible programming, stakes structure and handicapping system. This is a sticking plaster to maintain the current stakes structure which has clearly shown itself to be a disastrously flawed business model. I'll be very surprised if this does not reduce TR domestic market share and therefore future funding beyond this year. What then?

They've completely got the chicken and egg mixed up here. This policy is the cause of the declining foal crop and the only ones who should be concerned about that statistic are the studs standing stallions, not NZTR. None of their business.

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I'd have thought they'd restructure the R65 grade, they'd get another xxxxx races per year if they did that wouldn't they, given that 65 and maidens are where most of the ballots are.

I'm told Cromwell is one of the deleted days, that's tragic if it's true because that March Cromwell meeting is very strongly supported by the community, and a bloody good day out, in the picnic racing genre, with excellent food, wine, and weather guaranteed. .

Does anyone know if it's true that Cromwell has lost that day ?

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Guest 2Admin2

The real reason they are cutting meetings is they don't have the funding.  Thoroughbred turnover is only up 0.67% this season on the back of FOB.  Because of that direct funding from thoroughbred racing will be down on last year.

As they do every year under Purcella 's regime they are relying on abandoned meetings to balance the books.

The average horse field size is a flawed KPI when viewed on its own.  Average field size is up 0.25 (a quarter horse!) this year to 10.66.  That is on the back of reduced races and presumably a mind boggling increase in the number of females racing.

If they were really intent on improving field sizes they would be cutting more than 16 meetings.  The reality is they are using a blunt instrument to balance the books.

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29 minutes ago, the shue25 said:

Does not make sense  He  said the average size fields in the south are better the normal,yet they still cut 5 meetings.Then he says we will monitor that,sounds like a total load of crap if you ask me,Monitor that,how about monitoring your  usefulness as a employee.  

Actually it wouldn't take much work to do a comparison of the axed meetings against the national average.  The reality is they are cutting the wrong races.  The ones that return positive yield.  

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3 hours ago, Chris Wood said:

And our soft cock trainers association won't stand up on the trainers behalf as we are now owned by NZTR and nobody wants to rock the boat! I am ashamed to say I am a member to be honest!

I'm not a member Chris and never will be, until,  as you say, someone grows a pair, or, we start another co-op, say, the trainers collective, where they/we could bulk buy feed, gear, negotiate transport fees/costs, insurance etc etc,,,,,,collectively more bargaining power, drive down costs, and most importantly, it's a relevantly independent voice to negotiate with NZTR.  Once established, if the democratic right to exist is challenged, then its taken straight to court. After all, would there be any legal or ethical reason that another trainers entity cannot be formed?  If trainers are disenchanted with the current arrangements, why not create an alternative entity?  Much the same as bloodstockauction.com now offers a credible alternative ......

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Biff, I think the only issue would be that the NZTA is a recognised industry body under the Act and any new entity would not be. That said, having sold its soul to NZTR and been totally dysfunctional and powerless for years it probably doesn't matter. A new dynamic, proactive organisation, which could be largely self-funding with the kind of commercial arrangements you suggest, would be able to demand a voice in its own right.

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17 hours ago, Ohokaman said:

A more logic solution would be to cut 16  100k plus jobs from NZRB  therefore releasing 2 million to where it's needed most .  

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I can confirm that Omakau & Cromwell have had meetings cut.

Ridiculous in my mind.

 

 

Racing: Otago clubs lose race dates

By Matt Smith on Thu, 30 Jun 2016
 107  0 ShareThis

Both large and small racing clubs in Otago are the casualties in next year's racing calendar as the national equine racing bodies deal with declining horse numbers.

The Forbury Park Trotting Club drops from 23 meetings to 19, the Central Otago Racing Club is now a one-meeting club after its late February date was scrapped, and the Otago Racing Club meeting at Cromwell - held two days after the Central Otago club's meeting - has also gone.

The final calendar will be publicly released next month.

Forbury Park now has only one date in May, as opposed to three this season, and also loses one June date.

Forbury Park president Gerald Cayford said he had hoped for more dates than the ones allocated, especially considering recent acceptances at Forbury meetings.

"Personally, I would have liked to have seen more at Forbury, because racing number-wise, we've been going well,'' he said.

"For where the club wants to be, and the horse numbers we're drawing, whether it's good or bad, time will tell.''

The club had been starting its meetings half an hour or so earlier than in recent years to allow trainers to get back on the road earlier.

"I think by starting earlier, for the blokes down south and up north, it's been good for our numbers.''

Otago Racing Club chief executive Hannah Catchpole rued the loss of the second Cromwell meeting, but was pleased overall.

"I'm disappointed we don't have the Cromwell meeting [in March] in there any more because of the ideas we had for it,'' she said.

"But the rest of the calendar, I'm totally happy with. We've got a good concentration of races over the summer period when Wingatui looks fantastic.''

Central Otago Racing Club president Mike White could not be reached for comment.

The Waikouaiti Trotting Club's plan for a two-day meeting in February has made the grade, although with a slight adjustment. The club's annual cup meeting on February 12 will be followed by the invited drivers series, created by the Eastern Districts Racing Club, on Wednesday, February 15. The club had asked for a Tuesday.

The Oamaru Harness Racing Club maintains its seven dates, and the Oamaru Jockey Club has three meetings allocated, losing an August date.

Fairfax Media reported the number of thoroughbred permits had reduced by nine in the North Island and seven in the South Island for a total of 319 next season.

Harness Racing New Zealand has 257 licences for next season, 12 fewer than this season, chief executive Edward Rennell said.

"This includes dual-code and partial licences such as Marlborough Racing Club [in late April],'' Rennell said.

 

 

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I am quite shocked and disgusted to hear this, although I suppose I shouldn't be. The industry is being run by incompetent fools. Virtually every racemeeting in the SI has balloted and eliminated horses. I have no idea how trainers and owners can keep going.

Does it occur to any of them that many of the small fields sizes are because rating 85 horses are expected to race for $8,000, so who can blame them.

I am also disappointed by the attitude of the Otago secretary. All she seems to want is Wingatui's few days in the sun on prime dates in Feb. She seems to have no understanding of the need to maintain a basic infrastructure to keep the whole industry going down there. Cromwell for god's sake! One of the most successful meetings in the country. Get rid of some Trentham meetings.

I agree with Chris as well. the Trainers seem to do nothing as the industry sinks and many of their members exit the industry altogether or leave the country.

Knocking a few dollars off the salaries of some HO "workers' would more than fund all the dropped meetings throughout the country.

It is all very sad. We're Doomed.

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11 hours ago, We're Doomed said:

I am quite shocked and disgusted to hear this, although I suppose I shouldn't be. The industry is being run by incompetent fools. Virtually every racemeeting in the SI has balloted and eliminated horses. I have no idea how trainers and owners can keep going.

Does it occur to any of them that many of the small fields sizes are because rating 85 horses are expected to race for $8,000, so who can blame them.

I am also disappointed by the attitude of the Otago secretary. All she seems to want is Wingatui's few days in the sun on prime dates in Feb. She seems to have no understanding of the need to maintain a basic infrastructure to keep the whole industry going down there. Cromwell for god's sake! One of the most successful meetings in the country. Get rid of some Trentham meetings.

I agree with Chris as well. the Trainers seem to do nothing as the industry sinks and many of their members exit the industry altogether or leave the country.

Knocking a few dollars off the salaries of some HO "workers' would more than fund all the dropped meetings throughout the country.

It is all very sad. We're Doomed.

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18 hours ago, Midget said:

I'm in....I'll be the secretary and I'll do it for nothing....I'm sure we could change this game for the better in a flash

You'd know better than anyone , nothing will change until there is a change at the top and that seems a 1000/1 at the moment,

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We have to look at England. In the first three months of this year their Stakes improved by 9% compared with the same period in 2015. Last year January to March £20.8 m. This year £22.8m.Note the British wing of the European Breeders Fund will add £1,637,000 to Stakes this year 90% funded by stallion owners.Note also that England has a vibrant and influential Racing Owners Association with 7,500 members. No use whingeing.  Use these examples as a blueprint for our future.

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Also, to compliment Gubellini's post, AUS run VOBIS, VOBIS GOLD, and VOBIS ++………I can't recall the actual name but it's the icing on the cake paying bonus's for the lifetime of the horse……in NSW BOBS is pretty much the same, an incentive to inspire, a buy in so to speak, however the rewards are wonderful. The owners associations over in Oz are not only active they are pro-active and very involved from grass roots through to corporate and board room! The trainers associations are also streets ahead of here, not brilliant in some cases, but carry the cosh for most trainers if need be. EI was the catalyst, it turned adversity to advantage!….we need to embrace the analogy/catch phrase = ''The mouse that roared shattered the roar that moused''…anything is possible, people power rules in general, unless we live in Iran/Syria/Turkey, just look at Brexit?

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I think England is vastly different to NZ, as anyone who's worked in the racing and breeding industries over there would know.

Most elements of their horse industry are linked to the vile upper classes, or fabulously wealthy internationals who subscribe to English snobbery ( like Berri Schroder !! )

Their economic models might not be relevant to NZ.

Australia has to be our inspiration, but it's very hard to see us ever being able to perform at their level when we don't have a desirable gambling product to sell, and we're dragged down by top heavy administrative costs.

Maybe we have to focus on transforming the way our governing bodies operate, we do after all seem incredibly top heavy for a very small racing jurisdiction.

The breeders don't seem to need a top heavy governing body obstructing their businesses, and you'd argue the top end breeders have continued to do rather well throughout these difficult times, as have the usual quota of trainers and jockeys ( most of whom have then packed their bags and gone offshore ).

 

 

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England are nothing like us. Their stakes are appalling compared to Australia because so much betting is done through bookmakers. The horses are mostly owned by a wealthy elite. I don't think we can learn anything useful from them. 

NZ's strengths are actually some of the things that most business models consider to be weaknesses. This has proved horribly confusing to the imports and non racing people who have somehow slithered their way into most of the management positions.

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3 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:

 This has proved horribly confusing to the imports and non racing people who have somehow slithered their way into most of the management positions.

perhaps then one of the first things to be looked at - is who appointed them to these positions.

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45 minutes ago, We're Doomed said:

England are nothing like us. Their stakes are appalling compared to Australia because so much betting is done through bookmakers. The horses are mostly owned by a wealthy elite. I don't think we can learn anything useful from them. 

NZ's strengths are actually some of the things that most business models consider to be weaknesses. This has proved horribly confusing to the imports and non racing people who have somehow slithered their way into most of the management positions.

I reckon you're half right, as to England, big changes there, and Harry Herbert [Highclere Syndications] for one has taken racing to the masses!…….look at the crowds!……..in UK racing is on a roll!…..they recognised a lot of their shortcomings, they addressed such, not like here, head in the sand stuff…..cmon, I'll ask you guys, let's shoot from the hip eh? what would you lot do if the All Blacks started to play like the Wallabies? crowds were down to buggery? I'd bet my last that there would be uproar, coach would be gone, admin and management called to account, the press would be on their case….but not the old racing game, one of the top revenue producers for the country, oh no, leave that to gurgle and splutter…….there's something crook in Tallarook…...

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Thanks We're Doomed. Bookies take a big share of betting in Australia as well. The ownership structure in England is not as elitist as you claim. Syndication is well established there. One of our major problems is that Kiwi Punters invest with bookies and betting agencies offshore. I find it hypocritical that owners complain about stake levels yet continue to bet offshore. Our TAB with all its imperfections will always be my favoured betting option.

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