Taku Umanga 194 Report post Posted July 19, 2016 Cambridge 4/8/2016 2 - R55 & FASTER DISCRETIONARY HANDICAP TROT 2700m Of $7000 ($4300, $1200, $600, $300, others $140). For R55 & faster trotters. Also - 10m: Horses with a claiming price up to and including $6000. 20m: Horses with a claiming price of $6500 to $9000. The front line is for trotters Rated up to and including 55. Acceptance fee: Nil Auckland 12/8/2016 2 - UP TO & INCLUDING R55 DISCRETIONARY HANDICAP TROT 2700m Of $8113 ($4013, $1275, $600, $375, $250, others $200). For up to & including R55 trotters. ATC minimum trainer payment of $150 applies.Refer special conditions. Acceptance fee: Nil Thought Auckland was trying to attract horses - what happened to the minimum $400 per starter? $200 + $150 = $350 by my calculations ..... please correct me if I'm reading the programme wrong. Add $100 transport cost to travel to Auckland from Cambridge ..... I own two R54 trotters ..... I know where they'll be starting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hsvman 294 Report post Posted July 19, 2016 I think the owners share $250 is paid separately to the advertised stakes Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taku Umanga 194 Report post Posted July 19, 2016 I hope that's the case ..... but highly doubt it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
what a post 811 Report post Posted July 19, 2016 Of course if you race at clubs like Cambridge you get another $50 top up to owners if you run nowhere due to running in races under $20,000. Looking at the above it appears the trainers are the ones who gain the advantage by racing at Auckland. At least appears so,though may stand to be corrected. Either way should help most. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taku Umanga 194 Report post Posted July 20, 2016 Latest email from Kevin Smith clarifies things: Hi all, Friday 12 August (programme attached) sees the first of the Alexandra park meetings from when the minimum owner/trainers payments will become effective from. This means for starting your horse at Alexandra Park as an owner you will receive a minimum stake of $250.00. As a trainer you will receive a minimum payment of $150.00. ATC Minimum Owner Payment For all races advertised in the above programme the advertised owner stake payment for placing’s 5th or lower will receive an additional $50 by way of payment from HRNZ. These additional payments will be added to the total stake to be paid for the race. For example the advertised stake for 5th placing in the programme for race 1 is $250. With the additional payment of $50 this will increase to $300. Likewise the others payment in race 1 advertised at $200 will increase to $250 when the additional $50 is added. A further example will be in race three where the 5th placing will earn $388 when the $50 is added and the others payments will increase to $320 with the additional $50 added. ATC Minimum Trainer Payments. As indicated in the special conditions for the meeting, should a trainer choose to race their horse at Alexandra Park you will receive a minimum payment of $150.00 GST exclusive per starter. The payment of $150.00 is inclusive of any trainer percentage included in the stake received. Should any further clarification be required in regards to these payments please free to contact me. Regards Kevin Grego 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongOwner 217 Report post Posted July 24, 2016 Social Welfare Department for harness trainers = ATC . Trainers get paid by the owner and are to nominate the horse in their care in the best interests of the owner - not to be bribed by the socialist state of ATC. ATC just put the $150 into the stakes for 1st to 4th and then everyone can race for it - which is what we are there for - horse racing. Mt Smart Cats 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamour 662 Report post Posted July 25, 2016 Under this system it would be a good investment for some trainers to buy up some struggling horses cheap from Canty, Otago, Southland and central NI and race them up at the ATC. If you got 5 horses cheap and start them every week there is $1,000 in the pocket, less the driving fee of course. And you don't even have to run in the 1st 5 ever. Thejanitor 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Wood 1,545 Report post Posted July 27, 2016 I wish it would come into the galloping code.... Dreams are free! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouNeverGiveMeYourMoney 28 Report post Posted July 27, 2016 I think Banks and Hanover would have a different view going on " Unless their horses are good enough to reasonably often finish top four, those horses (and owners) will not long remain in racing! " found in 5. Purse Structure of the following article http://www.harnesslink.com/News/Gordon-Banks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce J Hadley 15 Report post Posted July 27, 2016 On 7/25/2016 at 11:22 AM, lamour said: Under this system it would be a good investment for some trainers to buy up some struggling horses cheap from Canty, Otago, Southland and central NI and race them up at the ATC. If you got 5 horses cheap and start them every week there is $1,000 in the pocket, less the driving fee of course. And you don't even have to run in the 1st 5 ever. Maybe I am not understanding this...but if the trainer buys these 5 horses, and owns them, would he get both fees, hence it would be $400 per horse which would equate to $2000 per week?? Also, if the trainer also has a drivers licence, no charge for that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
beef 74 Report post Posted July 27, 2016 Bruce Hadley is correct. What a joke this new social welfare policy is. Merely lining the pockets of many trainers who don't need it. If they want to help struggling trainers (who don't own mutli million dollar properties) why not use the money to make the Puke training complex free? And while they're doing that do the same for Kumeu. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljay 1,711 Report post Posted July 27, 2016 Times have changed haven't they. In the not too distant past the ATC wouldn't run races for maidens - now they encouraging non win horses with a formline like a poultry farm with open arms. Hope trainers will not race at Auckland just to get the "greed money" - I remember once trainers would not race second raters at Auckland because these horses would become "disillusioned" being beaten by big margins week after week. Such expressions as "Bank aid solution" and "Ambulance at bottom of cliff" spring to mind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lamour 662 Report post Posted July 27, 2016 18 hours ago, Bruce J Hadley said: Maybe I am not understanding this...but if the trainer buys these 5 horses, and owns them, would he get both fees, hence it would be $400 per horse which would equate to $2000 per week?? Also, if the trainer also has a drivers licence, no charge for that. Sorry, my maths was astray LOL Bruce J Hadley 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bruce J Hadley 15 Report post Posted July 28, 2016 Given this generous incentive, it certainly opens up opportunities for a trainer (assuming they had funds) to buy 5 or 6 claimers. Setting aside the winning stakes, they could earn the $2000 per week just for lining up. Again, I am making an assumption that there would be claimers most weeks, which given the dwindling numbers at Auckland, is a reasonable assumption to make. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taku Umanga 194 Report post Posted July 28, 2016 Just wish they wouldn't make the claimers the last race on the programme every time they run them! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongOwner 217 Report post Posted July 29, 2016 On 27 July 2016 at 4:48 PM, Bruce J Hadley said: Maybe I am not understanding this...but if the trainer buys these 5 horses, and owns them, would he get both fees, hence it would be $400 per horse which would equate to $2000 per week?? Also, if the trainer also has a drivers licence, no charge for that. We race horses to win - not support the useless ! Shameful that the key to to sport is getting kicked in the guts by administrators - the majority of which only skin in the game is 1/50 share in a club syndicate horse with their share given to them to look after the syn . So really no skin in the game - and the owner gets robbed again. Same as the breeders payment - they sold the horse , they pay nothing to the owner towards training but get $500 from the stake pool . Clubs put everything back into the stakes and race for it - stop the rubbishing around with social welfare payments . These charity payments out of the stakes pool is really pi ..ing off owners . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alittlebitofknowledge 69 Report post Posted July 30, 2016 2 hours ago, LongOwner said: We race horses to win - not support the useless ! Shameful that the key to to sport is getting kicked in the guts by administrators - the majority of which only skin in the game is 1/50 share in a club syndicate horse with their share given to them to look after the syn . So really no skin in the game - and the owner gets robbed again. Same as the breeders payment - they sold the horse , they pay nothing to the owner towards training but get $500 from the stake pool . Clubs put everything back into the stakes and race for it - stop the rubbishing around with social welfare payments . These charity payments out of the stakes pool is really pi ..ing off owners . Yea your right lets put everything back in into the stake money for the winners/placings. Oh but wait, Aucklands had the best stakes in the country (by a mile) for the last year and a half but can't get fields. Why? because most owners are selling due to the costs of racing gets to high after a while. They aren't charity payments at all. The cost involved in the training/racing of horses have gone up massively in the past few years due to several factors that aren't controllable. Auckland are trying something to help keep the costs down for everybody and make it more affordable for race horses. This will hopefully make owning a share in a horse more realistic for people, in turn driving up owners, horses and further leading to a general industry boost in the future. Something that is needed. i don't see any of you coming up with any ideas. Beef I do agree with your idea but the problem is that will only benefit a select group and not the whole racing fraternity in the north. The fact that you think you could just get horses up from the south and race them and make money is delusional. The costs of racing are massive nowadays transporting 5 horses to the races alone would cost you plenty. I hear many of you saying how trainers get training fees that's enough. I don't now any trainer that makes a big margin off training fees these days and have recently heard several trainers talking about how they have had to increase there fees as they were loosing money. Then when they do make money they generally have to reinvest it into the business through updating , floats, trucks, carts, Gear, staff, track equipment and plenty other things! Give it a rest guys. They are trying something and hopefully it works. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Piper 404 Report post Posted July 30, 2016 6 hours ago, LongOwner said: We race horses to win - not support the useless ! Shameful that the key to to sport is getting kicked in the guts by administrators - the majority of which only skin in the game is 1/50 share in a club syndicate horse with their share given to them to look after the syn . So really no skin in the game - and the owner gets robbed again. Same as the breeders payment - they sold the horse , they pay nothing to the owner towards training but get $500 from the stake pool . Clubs put everything back into the stakes and race for it - stop the rubbishing around with social welfare payments . These charity payments out of the stakes pool is really pi ..ing off owners . No breeders; no horses. Breeders take the biggest risk.; breeders didn't get recognized in the racebook a few years back for producing a quality product .They power's to be have determined that the top studs can't sustain a substantial new crop of horse's alone to supply the demand. Therefore a $500 bonus would help a hobbyist breeder like myself that has never made a profit from selling a horse to date. Bred 7 since 2009. 3 have left my care. 2 came back. Only one may make a profit. Chances is I could get said horse back next week or before the end of year. Hopefully he will run a bit and I get my dues. ps. Have only bred 1 in last 3 years. Think the $500 bonus may reverse my recent trend. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongOwner 217 Report post Posted July 30, 2016 Breeders violin really starts to play when anyone questions the share of the owners stakes they have managed to weasel into . If the stakes were higher then the owner would pay more for your horse - the present handout means the owner ,if he wins a race , only gets $5 k which lasts 2 months compared to if all the other payments were put back into stakes the win would cover 3 .5 plus months training .Owner pays the trainer already why should we pay him again out of the stakes pool - he gets 10% of stakes won - double dipping social welfare payment . I hope they pay tax on the earnings . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongOwner 217 Report post Posted July 30, 2016 Herlihy races say 200 times at ATC = $30 k . Also you are acting as a GST collector ( $4 k on the $30) for the Govt - why do that ? Looking at that sum will he reduce his training fees an average of $750 per owner per annum - doubt it ! Then if we look say 10 races x 40 meetings x $400 per horse x 8 horses get payment ( balance in stakes ) = $1,280,000. That is an average of $3,200 per race . So maidens could be $17.50- $20k . And that doesn't include money breeders take from the stakes pool - I breed too and have for years and know it is hard work to break even but I bet breeders get closer to breaking even than any poor owner but you think the owner is fair game to steal from. Maiden stakes at $20 k will attract new owners , keep owners in the game and make foals worth more as more demand ! Economics 101 . Subsidises don't worth - ask the farmer industry . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
eljay 1,711 Report post Posted July 31, 2016 Wonder how many Northern Trainers have been on an overseas holiday this year Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongOwner 217 Report post Posted July 31, 2016 I know a few ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alittlebitofknowledge 69 Report post Posted July 31, 2016 3 hours ago, eljay said: Wonder how many Northern Trainers have been on an overseas holiday this year 3 hours ago, LongOwner said: I know a few ! Yea an I bet they took them in the middle of winter........ because while you where all enjoying your summer holidays they were working there arses off on Christmas Day and all the other public holidays. An no they don't get time n a half or days in lieu. What a shit call! hsvman and Mt Smart Cats 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thejanitor 1,206 Report post Posted July 31, 2016 48 minutes ago, Alittlebitofknowledge said: Yea an I bet they took them in the middle of winter........ because while you where all enjoying your summer holidays they were working there arses off on Christmas Day and all the other public holidays. An no they don't get time n a half or days in lieu. What a shit call! Thousands of New Zealanders, not only horse trainers, work there arses off on Christmas Day and public holidays so what's your point? LongOwner 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alittlebitofknowledge 69 Report post Posted July 31, 2016 38 minutes ago, Thejanitor said: Thousands of New Zealanders, not only horse trainers, work there arses off on Christmas Day and public holidays so what's your point? Never said they didn't My point ! they were having a crack at trainers taking overseas holidays. Now you tell me were u can find a nice warm relaxing place for a holiday in New Zealand in the middle of winter? Please........ And a larger percentage of thoses people working those days get rewarded.extra pay/benefits or add a surcharge! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...