Auckland - $400 per starter?

[Alittlebitofknowledge 69]

At the end of the day I'm obviously fighting a loosing battle here. 

Any valid point I make just get rebuttaled with a tony h or Barry example.

yet in the last 2 years in the north alone 6 trainers have packed it in , 8-10 young & experienced horseman have gone to Aussie to start a future an there have been no NEW young trainers take the plunge. An you try an blame the stake money yet we have the best stake money in the country.

trainers have to bare so much cost till they get reimbursed for it which can be 6-8 weeks and that's with the people that pay there bill in time.

scenario for you

young/small trainer has a horse race on the 3rd of the month 10th of the month and 24th all same month. 

So that's 3 times transport say $120 (average charge from Pukekohe to the Park)

3 times a pre/or post race. Most average pastes etc are bout $20-$40 from garrads

Plus there other plenty of other expenses they wouldn't be accrued had they not have to go to the races. Time/wages/dinner/hoof oil/ brushes/shampoo/dress rugs/colours/cart cleaning and protection products/ tape/fines etc

lets say all up $600 for the 3 starts now he has to bare that cost till the 15th-20th of the next month ( and that's if your owner pays on time). Now that's just for one horse and it's an ongoing scenario. 

 

No matter what system you put in place the top echelon are always going to benefit more than most but at least this way it will give young/smaller trainers a chance keep going while they battle there way up the ladder to a place of prominence!

[Nslram 80]

You will always fight a losing battle from 4 or 5 knockers on  this forum with much to say and very little skin in the game but take heart because most people in the industry just read their comments with mirth!!

[beef 74]

You are not necessarily a knocker if you don't agree.

If the ATC must throw money at the trainers why do it universally and line the pockets of the well-heeled trainers.

As stated earlier, why not make the facilities at Puke and Kumeu free. The Club could also buy 3, 4 or 5  horse trucks and transport to and from Alex Park free or very cheaply?

Why not employ a vet on site at Puke, also free or very cheap. I'm sure all owners are sick of buying drugs etc., from vets who add on their usual 600% along with travel money for every horse treated.

Are the ATC really taking a long term view and trying to encourage new trainers or are they taking the short term view and are only trying to increase numbers at Alex Park immediately?

 

[Alittlebitofknowledge 69]

1 hour ago, beef said:

You are not necessarily a knocker if you don't agree.

If the ATC must throw money at the trainers why do it universally and line the pockets of the well-heeled trainers.

As stated earlier, why not make the facilities at Puke and Kumeu free. The Club could also buy 3, 4 or 5  horse trucks and transport to and from Alex Park free or very cheaply?

Why not employ a vet on site at Puke, also free or very cheap. I'm sure all owners are sick of buying drugs etc., from vets who add on their usual 600% along with travel money for every horse treated.

Are the ATC really taking a long term view and trying to encourage new trainers or are they taking the short term view and are only trying to increase numbers at Alex Park immediately?

 

Like I said in a previous posts I do like your idea but it doesn't help everbody. What about all the trainers at Cambridge, morrinsville, Waiuku, diary flat, Thames pakiri? Those areas are predominantly filled will the trainers who need the financial support? 

80% of the barns leased at Pukekohe are well established stables. 

I would be ignorant if I didn't acknowledge the fact that boosting numbers is one of the main reasons for Auckland introducing this. But they obviously realised that the top trainers already race nearly solely at the park so they need to do something to help the smaller trainers, while at the same time attracting owners by decreasing there costs!

 

[eljay 1,719]

How are owners costs being decreased?      I thought it was only their stakes that were being decreased!      Have I missed something - have training fees decreased, transport decreased?  blacksmiths decreased?    Vets decreased?     Driving fees decreased?      What have I missed??

[Alittlebitofknowledge 69]

50 minutes ago, eljay said:

How are owners costs being decreased?      I thought it was only their stakes that were being decreased!      Have I missed something - have training fees decreased, transport decreased?  blacksmiths decreased?    Vets decreased?     Driving fees decreased?      What have I missed??

How many horses run in the money every start? A low percentage therefore if the owner is recieving something every week will help manage there costs. You say stakes are decreasing, some barely but the extra $ every time you miss a cheque will far out way that! Also if you have a look some of the horses that won last week would actually earn more in the corresponding race next week at the park.

also the trainer payment will allow trainers to keep there fees down. Instead of having to increase them with the cost of everything going up. 

I mean being an owner yourself eljay.........? Or perhaps not

without things like this we will end up like gallopers. There bills are on average $1000 + more a month and they can race for 7k down in the grades.....

i have owned both myself an I no who's getting the better deal!

[LongOwner 217]

I guess you have more faith than me in the trainer not increasing his charges to the owner. They knew it was coming but as you say trainers rates have recently gone up. I think the $150 a starter will go into their pocket and will not come into the monthly cost calculation when they are reviewing  the training cost for the owner to pay.

So the thought that the trainers fee will help owners I cannot accept - how it can I am still at a loss to see.

The owner pays for nearly everything. Also, maybe I am odd but I pay the trainers bill by the 20th of every month - never miss.  I guess I will now net off the $150 every start and see the reaction or become a bad payer as you get nothing for paying on time.

More than one way for the owner to get back stakes which should be raced for !

 

[hsvman 294]

Auckland are trying to make it so that every horse no matter what ability will be able to earn some money each week/start. , at the moment a lot of horses go around week to week struggling to get a cheque say 1 in 5 starts or worse and sometimes when the battler horse finally runs a place they only end up with around $300 . Their aim is to increase both these starter payments and stakes in the future , small steps tho be patient . I'm sure you've owned or most people have owned  a lot more battling horses than good ones so your average loss on a horse will be less than what it has been in the past. With such low horse numbers in the north they needed to try something to either keep most horses and trainers in the game. Racing for the higher stakes they have tryed but so many horses people couldn't compete or earn a check so either sold or sacked those horses and a lot of hobbie trainers which used to make up a fair chunk of feilds have given the game away. Which means less starters less turnover. Those trainers may or may not return but at least with this payment to every horse and train may keep more poeple in the game.if as many trainers and and owners leave the game in the next ten years at the past ten years there only be about 30-40 racing each week.at least Auckland is trying something different rather than sitting back and watching racing fall apart.

[beef 74]

The first month, (2 meetings), has resulted in a net payout from the trainers $150 social welfare scheme of $22500, GST exclusive.

This is after an adjustment for the trainers 10% on all stakes from 1st  to  5th.

This money clearly should have been paid to owners - what a disgrace!!

[Alittlebitofknowledge 69]

16 minutes ago, beef said:

The first month, (2 meetings), has resulted in a net payout from the trainers $150 social welfare scheme of $22500, GST exclusive.

This is after an adjustment for the trainers 10% on all stakes from 1st  to  5th.

This money clearly should have been paid to owners - what a disgrace!!

What are your thoughts on the 127 horses that raced last Friday. Biggest numbers at the park in a long time. 

Saw trainers bringing horses from far an wide.

maybe it had something to do with the 6-8 hours of there time they usually never get paid for unless they run in the money?

Also how much extra has been paid to owners?

 

so far has had good results for the 'disgrace' you call it

 

[beef 74]

Yee I always understood that trainers got paid training fees and recovered transport costs regardless if the horse ran in the money.

Have I got it wrong?

[Alittlebitofknowledge 69]

8 minutes ago, beef said:

Yee I always understood that trainers got paid training fees and recovered transport costs regardless if the horse ran in the money.

Have I got it wrong?

Oh that's cute you believe training fees make trainers money. If you race a horse the trainer probably spends 1-2 hours on it at the barn that day. Then takes 4-8 hours depending on we're they live to take your horse to the races. Then they charge you 40-50$ for the whole day!

That's probably why most trainers are forced to eat from the canteen an can't spend all night in the Chinese restaurant............ 

Yes transports for that trip are charged. But what about the 10's of 000's the trainers had to coff up for the car&afloat or truck?

oh yea an then there's the other fact that 99% of trainers are also owners.

 

 

 

[beef 74]

Isn't it true that the best horse a trainer has is his truck?

And I repeat , if this trainer bias board want to help trainers make all club owned facilities free (Puke), free trials, buy some trucks and employ a vet or two.

Don't just pay their well-heeled trainer mates.

[Alittlebitofknowledge 69]

2 hours ago, beef said:

Isn't it true that the best horse a trainer has is his truck?

And I repeat , if this trainer bias board want to help trainers make all club owned facilities free (Puke), free trials, buy some trucks and employ a vet or two.

Don't just pay their well-heeled trainer mates.

And I repeat... That doesn't help the people that need it the most. 

Dixon,Small,Balle,Green,Reid, Blanchard all established trainers.

Then who gets priority when there's 40 horses to go on two or three trucks who misses out?

dont get me wrong I do like the idea, but it doesn't help everyone

i saw a horse race at the park the other night that hadn't race there in a year. Comes from far further a field than puke. It was competitive did work and run 4th

Trainers are going to bring horses now because both them and their owners are going to be able to cover their costs 

there's always going to a couple that benefit more than others but at least this plan helps EVERYBODY!

you ideas whilst good don't help the ones that need it the most. The small time/battling trainers who toil away all day everyday.

If you have ideas that help everyone I am more than happy to support them.

otherwise stop targeting the small negatives and brush that chip off ya shoulder.

 

[Nslram 80]

A small correction Alittle- beef has a chip on both shoulders- it helps keep him and his thoughts so balanced !!

[eljay 1,719]

Ooooooo - nasty!!             At least his shoulders are broad enough to carry two chips.

[Nslram 80]

Not nasty at all Eljay it's the people with a chip on their shoulder that are unbalanced and there is a few of them on this site!

[beef 74]

By the way Alittle-bitofknowledge your training figures are bit out of date.

$40-50 a day? How about $70 a day for colts and $65 a day for fillies.

That's what a leading Northern trainer has just gone up too.

If he races that colt twice a month at Auckland that's $80 a day for that race horse. Not bad.

[Bruce J Hadley 15]

6 hours ago, beef said:

By the way Alittle-bitofknowledge your training figures are bit out of date.

$40-50 a day? How about $70 a day for colts and $65 a day for fillies.

That's what a leading Northern trainer has just gone up too.

If he races that colt twice a month at Auckland that's $80 a day for that race horse. Not bad.

Ouch.  Are you able to advise who that is?

[Alittlebitofknowledge 69]

Honestly beef.

 

like I have said many time these always going to be one or two that it just becomes an added bonus to.

Now I no your a little slow so I'm going to say it again. It's about the struggling trainers the 95% of NI trainers who charge between 40-50$ a day!!!!! The ones that come from Cambridge, morrinsville, Thames, kumeu, diary flat, Waiuku, 

and because your slow il be patient and say it again. If you come up with a better idea that helps EVERYBODY I will happily support.

however stop using the top two or three f'n trainers to base your argument around.

There is actually only 3 that's right 3 trainers that charge 51$ + a day in the N.I so I don't think I'm that outta date champ

[LongOwner 217]

There are a lot more than 3 trainers charging more than $50 + a day .

Dunn, Purdon, Herlihy are north of $60 + a day and a group of plus $50 +  .

Also are you talking $45 + track fees or $45 inclusive track fees so true fees are actual plus $50 a day ?

Broad answers and quotes don't help to justify the Socail Welfare Payment funding out of the owners pool to help pay for the Ranger upgrade.

Do you think you have the right to be the only person with a suggestion which must be accepted - a lot of us don't like the propaganda payment made to bribe trainers which is detrimental to the owner. If you want a fat bottom performance attendance payment give the lot to the poor owners who are predominately driving a jap imports and don't oen new SUV,s and triple floats which get charged out etc.

[beef 74]

After 4 race meetings to 25/9/16 the net social welfare payments to trainers is $41845. This is stake money lost to owners. A continuing disgrace made worse by the universal payment method used.

[Alittlebitofknowledge 69]

I suppose then we should go down the path of gallopers then

charge 60-90 a day +

owners have to pay acceptance fees

no payments for also rans

bills of 3-4 k a month. 

Be good to see how many owners we have then.

since your great with maths beef maybe you could tell us the extra $ that has been paid to also ran owners this season to help cover expenses? Or would you not help your negative attitude towards everything. 

Also long owner if you want around and asked the trainers how many of them had to borrow money to buy or put there Utes,floats and trucks onto their mortgage  you might be suprised. Hell I no of serval trainers who only lease there floats!

you take a shot a me long owner but I've said serval times I would willing support an alternative that helps all trainers and owners. I would be all for it but no one wants to come up with a better idea..... They just want to bag this one. 

It obviously works take a look at the last two months fields.

 Also beef just wondering if you just vent on here or if when your talking  to your mate/co breeder,owner/trainer who happens to be a director on the ATC board you are so forthright with your opinion.

 

then again another option is to be like the states were owners have to pay a groom to take there horse to the races and look after it....

[beef 74]

If new/young trainers have to be helped (and they do), I've already suggested how I consider that should be done.

So I'm not just knocking this scheme.

Further, being a dally I'm far to intelligent to waste my time venting at an ATC Board whose opinion won't be altered.

[Nslram 80]

Beef doesn't bother talking to me about it anymore because he knows I treat his comments with the mirth they deserve!! He doesn't even realise he's not a Dally anymore he's a Croation