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Ashoka

Galileo Gold

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English 2000 Guineas winner Galileo Gold is to be the subject of a genetic test apparently, the result of which will be used to determine the horse's immediate future path. Presumably, this test will give an indication as to whether or not this horse can stay the Derby distance or not.

Does anybody have any knowledge about such testing that they might be prepared to share? Berri, perhaps? Swoopa? Mother-in-laws?

Yours, in hopeful anticipation...

Ashoka

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Ashoka,I think Berri and Hesi would know more than me on this subject .But I do remember  some sort of study in Ireland  3 or 4 years ago with an Irish trainer Jim Bolger or Dermet Welds maybe.It was about genetics,that's all I know.

Cheers 

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Yes very interesting reading Chestnut,   When looking at the pedigree of Galileo Gold from a line breeding point view, especially his 3rd dam I can't help but notice that the names on the male lines of these mares match the brood-mare sires in the stallion.   This to me is just as good a predictor of a class race horse and a way for any brood-mare owner to get the biggest bang for his buck with a stallion.

The work I do with planned matings using this method has produced Group One performers in less than 1 in 8 runners.  (not many owners have experienced eight Group One wins and placings in the Melbourne Cup, Caulfield Cup and W S Cox Plate.)

Galileo G.jpg

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Swynford...

Is there anything in Galileo Gold's pedigree that would influence you in regard to this horse's distance preferences, a mile/ten furlongs or mile-and-a-half and/or, perhaps, further?

Please advise.

Thank you.

Ashoka

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I was so interested in the work being done by Emeline Hill on the horse's genome that I went and spent some time in Ireland. At that stage she had received backing ( financial) from Jim Bolger, an astute Irish trainer of some repute. After a couple of days in the bowels of genomesville, I made the following observations:

1. In order to be able to establish the potential to a horse's ability, 15 Percent more DNS markets were yet to be identified;

2. The status of the configuration of the DNS markers to distinguish a horse's ability to run over a certain distance was premature; and

3. A number of trainers had been provided with opinions and reports that proved to contradict the horse's actual best performance.

i think that Emeline is a very nice person who is years in front of most. I do think the projected predictability is premature 

 

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On 5/10/2016 at 5:08 PM, Ashoka said:

Swynford...

Is there anything in Galileo Gold's pedigree that would influence you in regard to this horse's distance preferences, a mile/ten furlongs or mile-and-a-half and/or, perhaps, further?

Please advise.

Thank you.

Ashoka

Ashoka 

       with Galileo Gold's pedigree I would have to say no I can't to your question, 'can I predict what distance he is good at' .   When looking at pedigrees there are certain lines (if money was no object ) that I would use if the goal was either Slipper, Cox Plate or Melbourne Cup.

However champion  horses can win almost at any distance, and I believe that line breeding is the most predictable way to achieve that . Gunsynd, Kingston Town, both great examples,  Both brilliant at shorter distances but both placed in the Melbourne Cup,  some one said the only way Jimmy Choux could get the Derby distance was in the back of a horse float, he won from 800 metres to 2400 metres.

I think the question that needs to be asked is 'How predictable is this system before the mare is mated',  other wise it is just a training tool.

 

 

 

 

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Swynford...

Thank you for your reply.

I have always admired horses who were versatile when it came to the distances over which they raced. The great Show Gate immediately comes to mind in relation to this ability.

All the best.

Ashoka

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4 hours ago, Ashoka said:

Swynford...

Thank you for your reply.

I have always admired horses who were versatile when it came to the distances over which they raced. The great Show Gate immediately comes to mind in relation to this ability.

All the best.

Ashoka

Battle Heights would have to be another Ashoka, not only for the distances he won at but also for his durability.

He won every season from a 3yo until a 10yo and won from 1100m to 3200m. The 1100m race he won was as a 9yo and carrying 61.5kgs.

Some of his major wins: Cox Plate, Sydney Cup, AJC Queen Elizabeth Stakes, AJC Metropolitan Handicap, Waikato International Stakes, Trentham Stakes, Wellington Cup, AJC Craven Plate, WATC Cox Stakes etc etc.

In his Cox Plate win he flew home from last to beat Taras Bulba.     

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rdytdy...

I agree. I remember being very surprised when Battle Heights won that sprint. First up on a wet track mid-week? Gubellini?

However, even as a seemingly avowed "Northerner", you would have to agree that, for versatility, no horse would even come close to Show Gate. One thing that these two horses share is a seemingly, at time, ad hoc approach to the art of thoroughbred racehorse training on the part of their conditioners...more so in the case of Show Gate.

Both horses bring back golden memories of a past age very much different to that of today.

All the best.

Ashoka

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Ashoka, you are correct I am not a "one eyed Cantabrian" :D

However Show Gate ranks as the second best mare I have seen race in NZ (behind Sunline).

Ironically, speaking of both horses I was there at Trentham on the 19th January 1974. Battle Heights won the Wellington Cup beating Manchero (and then endured an enquiry that went for over an hour) and Show Gate won the Telegraph Handicap in the hands of Bruce Marsh beating the 1973 winner Sharif. I got that double and then left to get married in Lower Hutt.

Johnny Harris was my best man and Garry Phillips my groomsman and several other riders missed the last race with Bruce arriving a bit later after being delayed following Show Gate's win. 

I saw Show Gate in all her races at Trentham including that 'certainty beaten" 2nd in the 1977 Wellington Cup and the day she ran her last race when winning the Trentham Stakes after breaking down. I have a photo of the finish of the Cup with her finishing second and a photo of her being led back to scale by Bob Skelton with Bob holding his whip aloft in his left hand saluting. Another race I saw her win was the Awapuni Gold Cup. 

       

      

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Interesting comments from you all. I think this discussion highlights the dangers of relying solely on pedigree analysis to determine a horses ability or possible distance aptitudes.

A classic example would be a horse like Super Impose. Clearly an outstanding miler as suggested with a pedigree of Imposing from a Taipan mare from a Pakistan mare. Line bred  3 x 4 to Star Kingdom to boot, yet he managed to run 2nd in a Melbourne Cup a race he arguably should have won.

Obviously his DNA makeup included genetic staying influences not suggested by his pedigree. Ultimately I have always thought a pedigree is largely just names on a page.

Was it Bart Cummings who said "pedigree doesn't tell me anything about a horse other than how much I need to pay for it"?

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