Timaru race 10 - The start a disgrace!!!!!!!!!

[Guest]

I have seen some very bad starts in Canterbury over the past few years but don't think I have ever seen one quite as bad as Race 10 at Timaru today.

You need to see it.

How on earth could anyone possibly call that a fair start.

An absolute disgrace and an embarrassment to the harness industry.

There won't be much said about it because of the Stipendiary Steward setup situation in Canterbury.

The starter is also a Stipe which is ridiculous, no one can disagree with that.

Yes I know it was extremely windy and they couldn't have the mobile going, but people are investing on that race and we should not have to accept this type of performance from our starters.

The line was so ridiculous, no. 1 came from no. 4 across to 1 and other horses appeared to be being pulled up as they thought that there is no way whatsoever this could be a start.

No I didn't invest I didn't have one after race 3 as the so called rolling starts were pathetic.

I have seen some shocking starts but this would have to take the cake!!!!

[Thejanitor 1,219]

I have seen some very bad starts in Canterbury over the past few years but don't think I have ever seen one quite as bad as Race 10 at Timaru today.

You need to see it.

How on earth could anyone possibly call that a fair start.

An absolute disgrace and an embarrassment to the harness industry.

There won't be much said about it because of the Stipendiary Steward setup situation in Canterbury.

The starter is also a Stipe which is ridiculous, no one can disagree with that.

Yes I know it was extremely windy and they couldn't have the mobile going, but people are investing on that race and we should not have to accept this type of performance from our starters.

The line was so ridiculous, no. 1 came from no. 4 across to 1 and other horses appeared to be being pulled up as they thought that there is no way whatsoever this could be a start.

No I didn't invest I didn't have one after race 3 as the so called rolling starts were pathetic.

I have seen some shocking starts but this would have to take the cake!!!!An

Just another P. Lamb shocker Brodie. Lamb has officiated over countless poor starts but few as bad as today's effort. I agree he should not be a stipendiary steward as he is unaccountable for his actions; I also believe he should be replaced as starter. He is the worst starter I have seen in over 45 years in game. 

Edited October 4, 2015 by Thejanitor
spelling error due to zealous Apple spell checker

[Guest]

The Janitor.

Mr Lamb was not one of the Stipes today but obviously they are all very chummy.

The Stipes Report has got Racing Integrity Unit at the top of the paper.

What integrity has occurred with this absolute shocker of a start. 

Drivers are fined for a variety of things and sometimes suspended but not suspended that often nowadays as they prefer to gather funds by fining.

The Stipes Report basically is a joke if the Stipes think it was a fair start. Terry McMillan was pulling his horse up and there were several on the inside that were lengths ahead  of the outside ones.

Yes it may have been difficult conditions at Timaru but at the end of the day the starter has the say as to whether it was a fair start or not.

The Stipendiary control,and starting in Canterbury is extremely poor.

I don't believe we had the start problems when Jack Mulcay was the starter and when Neil Escott was officiating things seemed to be far more professional than it is today.

Am I asking for too muchh from these paid people?

 

[Happy Sunrise 554]

If one had backed Lottie Franco you would be spitting tacks. On a day like that getting a run in behind jackalack Sue in the trail or maybe 3 back would have been a handy place to be. She can run home well with a sit but was miles off the front horses at the start. I don't know how the stipes can say 'Stewards reviewed the start of this event prior to giving the all clear but were satisfied that no runners chances had been materially prejudiced through the hanging outwards of JACKALACK SUE' and then in the same report say 'JACKALACK SUE hung outwards in the score up and then broke losing its position for some distance hampering CRIMSON GLORY and LOTTIE FRANCO'

Is this bordering on negligent? Maybe they wanted to get home.

[Thejanitor 1,219]

 

The Stipendiary control,and starting in Canterbury is extremely poor.

I don't believe we had the start problems when Jack Mulcay was the starter and when Neil Escott was officiating things seemed to be far more professional than it is today.

Agree. Jack Mulcay far superior to Lamb. When Mulcay was starter at Addington you did not see horses facing the wrong way when tapes released; horses rearing when tapes released; horses being held by starters' assistants when tapes released, horses out of line or moving forward when tapes are released and gaining an unfair advantage. Unfortunately, these issues regularly occur at Addington since Lamb became starter. And far as I am aware, Mulcay was not a stipendiary steward like Lamb is today. The problem with Canterbury stipes is a number, including Lamb, are ex-horsemen and they are like an old boys network and too chummy with their old mates.

[gazza123 51]

race  start was controlled by clerk of the course not starter

[lonestar 80]

the clerk of the course is only the guide for the horses to keep in line in a moving start, the starter is still the person signalling they are ok to go. I f you watch the video the starter was in the yellow jacket at the start point.

[LongOwner 217]

What about DD fine for being late - was it a weather issue ( flight from Invercargill to CHCH ) or just his alarm clock . If a weather issue then fine is tough- surely a stipe report should provide some indication why a driver was late, like why they relegate a horse.

 

[eljay 1,719]

Yes LongOwner, it is a little mystifying - however we may learn more from the JCA report.

[what a post 811]

Not a great look for sure  but  very difficult conditions. Lucky they were not racing when all that rubbish was blowing over the track from rubbish tip. I wonder if anyone had ever raised that with them before ???   Brodie you have made reference to things being better when neil escott was officiating. You have got to be joking?  One time we took our horse to the trials and presented him for inspection 1 hour before the trials as is in the rules.  Mr escott was busy,fair enough but despite reminding him a couple of times we were in the first we were told to wait.. As a consequence we were only inspected  a couple of minutes before start time and only just made it to the start as they started. When we came off the track mr escott told me if i was ever that late to the start again he would scratch us. Inquiry"s when we won  for the most ridiculous of reasons, horse warnings when they did everything right and finished not far off the winners, Swabbings week after week,etc,etc.   While the current stipes dont get it right everytime, and i see no reason not to discuss that as we do on here, they at least are trying to be fair to everyone and are a huge improvement on the way things were when mr escott was around in my opinion.

[Guest]

What a post.

You would have to agree that the so called start to race 10 was an absolute disgrace?

I believe that there should certainly have been an enquirey into the final race and some horses late scratched as they weren't given every chance from their draw.

The Starter should've been severely warned but it won't happen because they are all mates, and not professional at all.

If you performed to that standard in most jobs you would be on a warning.

They obviously just wanted to get it over and get home despite the fact that it was an absolute farce.

As for Neill Escott he had some faults but did seem to be more consistent than the current regime.

[what a post 811]

Brodie, i agree the start did seem to give some an advantage over others.

[jimsmith 224]

I saw the replay of the race in question last night and I'm staggered that any starter worth his salt could yell "happy" or "righhhhhhht" at the starting point. If Lamb thinks that was a fair start then he is clearly the wrong man for the job. I've seen similar numerous times previously and it was always when the meeting was behind the clock and there was time pressure to just start the race. Perhaps he misses a bonus payment if the meeting runs x amount of time late. In an age of consequence for poor quality performance where even organisations like Plunket are dumping quality needed nurses how can Lamb continue in his role? Is Harness Racing so shite they don't deserve any better?   

[Basil 333]

Brodie, i agree the start did seem to give some an advantage over others.

And yet if one had missed the start and only tuned in after they'd gone 100m, everything would have looked hunky-dory---no breaking horses and a compact field spread over about 8 lengths.  If only all starts went so well!  Presumably this is what the stipes meant when they said they "were satisfied that no runners chances had been materially prejudiced...", i.e., losing a couple of lengths isn't considered 'material'.

Obviously we wouldn't want all starts to go off like this one. But while I might not have been totally happy if I'd had money on one of the (small number of) affected horses, I can see where the stipes are coming from on this.  A pragmatic response to very difficult circumstances.

[Guest]

Basil.

Basically the Stipes are covering up a totally unacceptable situation where the start should have been aborted, as if you watch closely most of the drivers outside 4 were pulling up as they could see it wasn't right.

Matt Cross in his commentary basically stated that it wasn't going to be a start.

It was an absolute shocker and shouldn't be acceptable to any of us, owners trainers or punters.

The standing starts are a nightmare and now we allow that other start the other day as be ok.

The only reason they were compact after 100m was that they were going so slow.

As a punter people invested fixed odds in the morning on a mobile start and not some farcical event.

[Thejanitor 1,219]

I saw the replay of the race in question last night and I'm staggered that any starter worth his salt could yell "happy" or "righhhhhhht" at the starting point. If Lamb thinks that was a fair start then he is clearly the wrong man for the job. I've seen similar numerous times previously and it was always when the meeting was behind the clock and there was time pressure to just start the race. Perhaps he misses a bonus payment if the meeting runs x amount of time late. In an age of consequence for poor quality performance where even organisations like Plunket are dumping quality needed nurses how can Lamb continue in his role? Is Harness Racing so shite they don't deserve any better?   

Lamb is the worst starter Addington has had and he should not be doing the job. He urgently needs retraining or replacing. Starts have become a joke since he was appointed starter and to compound the problem he was later appointed a stipendiary stewart too, which means that he is unaccountable for his numerous mistakes.

[Basil 333]

Basil.

Basically the Stipes are covering up a totally unacceptable situation where the start should have been aborted, as if you watch closely most of the drivers outside 4 were pulling up as they could see it wasn't right.

Matt Cross in his commentary basically stated that it wasn't going to be a start.

It was an absolute shocker and shouldn't be acceptable to any of us, owners trainers or punters.

The standing starts are a nightmare and now we allow that other start the other day as be ok.

The only reason they were compact after 100m was that they were going so slow.

As a punter people invested fixed odds in the morning on a mobile start and not some farcical event.

Yeeesss, I know you think the start was a shambles.  And I've already said I agree.  But my point was, and is, simply that, if only by good luck, the actual *outcome* wasn't that bad.  If that happened because all horses were going very slowly, so be it.  By 100m, they were well and truly underway.

Sometimes one just has to say "yes, it was a hell of a mess and the end result could have been a disaster, but by the grace of god it wasn't" and move on.

Should the starter have faced sanctions?  Well, that's a separate question and, on the face of it, the answer would seem to be a clear yes.  But I wasn't in the stipes room, or even on the course, so I don't know exactly what conditions were like, or what explanations were offered up.  Nor, it seems, does anybody else on this forum.

[Happy Sunrise 554]

Basil

If you agree that the start was a shambles then it needs to be a false start. A 'start' is an isolated event that is not connected to what is happening 100m into the race.

Agree it could have been a disaster, a horse careering through the field is not good at any time.

 

[Gruff 2,793]

Had to like the commentators call..."this is going to be.....a start " what a surprise ! 

[eljay 1,719]

Dexters fine for being late - here is the whole story.     

 

TIMARU HRC 4 OCTOBER 2015 - R 3 - CHAIR, MR S CHING

Created on 07 October 2015

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Rules:

507(1)

Committee:

SChing (chair) 
DJackson 

 

Name(s):

D Dunn-Open Horseman

Informant

N Ydgren-Stipendiary Steward

Information Number

A6722

Plea:

Admitted

Charge:

Broken driving engagements

Evidence:

Following the running of Race 3, the Port FM Pace, an information was filed by Stipendiary Steward Mr N Ydgren against Open Horseman Mr D Dunn, alleging a breach of Rule 507(1) in that he was late to arrive on course for races 1, 2 and 3 and in doing so has broken his engagements to drive CIRCUS BOY in Race 1, CAESARS EMPIRE in Race 2 and SHARD DIEGO in Race 3.

Mr Dunn had indicated on the Information that this breach of the Rules was admitted. He had also informed the Stewards that he did not want to be present at the hearing.

Rule 507 (1) reads as follows:

“(1) No horseman shall break an engagement to drive a horse.

Mr Ydgren gave evidence that Mr Dunn had called the Stewards at 8.54am this morning and informed them that he had slept in and missed his flight to Christchurch after driving at the Invercargill meeting on the previous day. Mr Ydgren stated that Mr Dunn had also missed his drive in the 4th race but that was due to reasons beyond his control. He said he was held up on the drive down to Timaru with slow traffic due to the weather conditions.

Decision:

As Mr Dunn had admitted this breach of the Rules it was found to be proved in accordance with Rule 1111(1)(d).

Submission For Penalty:

Mr Ydgren informed the Committee that Mr Dunn had admitted the breach at the first opportunity and that he had a previous breach of this Rule in the last 12 months at Banks Peninsula on 26 January 2015 where he could not fulfil his engagements for 2 drives. He was fined the sum of $150 on that occasion. Mr Ydgren submitted that Mr Dunn had a good record considering the number of drives and meetings he had attended since January. He said Mr Dunn was a very busy driver and had driven on 1001 occasions last season and 103 so far this season. Mr Ydgren stated that the JCA Guide recommended a starting point of 4 drives or a $200 fine and taking into consideration Mr Dunn’s ready admission of the breach, submitted that a fine in the vicinity of $150 be considered as penalty in this case.

Reasons For Penalty:

In determining penalty, the Committee took into account Mr Dunn’s ready admission of the breach. We also took into account his record which showed a breach in January where he was fined the sum of $150 and the number of drives and meetings he had attended since that breach. We considered Mr Dunn’s record in relation to this rule to be neutral. The Committee also took into consideration the consequences of the breach in that the connections and betting public of those three drives were affected which the Committee determined that an uplift of $50 to the starting point of a $200 was required. In mitigation we were able to give Mr Dunn a discount of $50 for his ready admission of the breach and therefore decided that a fine of $200 was an appropriate penalty in this case.

Penalty:

Mr Dunn was fined the sum of $200.