Leggy 4,089 Report post Posted June 23, 2015 Oh. I don't suppose this is the study you are quoting from? I didn't think to consider the human literature for autism cohorts. http://preventdisease.com/news/10/050310_vit_b12_cobalt.shtml This is a thoroughbred forum so let's stick to the equine research, eh? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevy86 2,710 Report post Posted June 23, 2015 while I was foreman to the most amazing man who ever saddled a horse Who was that Biff? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruff 2,800 Report post Posted June 23, 2015 ...if you could prove your horse is autistic your a chance....looks cut and dry On previous post legs..nothing can explain levels over threshold..toast Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slam dunk 1,317 Report post Posted June 23, 2015 Indeed. How much were they injecting? But read this and come back if you think the internet is a reliable source on that. http://www.racing.com/news/2015-01-19/the-cobalt-threshold Well I did and I see using hemo15 they got above the 200 level mind you that was on the basis of injecting on the day. Still kind of proves my point. maybe high levels of cobalt have always been around with injections. Its only now with accurate testing its become an issue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Insider 3,961 Report post Posted June 23, 2015 Who was that Biff? I will have a guess.......Angus Arminasco. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,089 Report post Posted June 23, 2015 Right not only on the day, within hours of three consecutive doses which "was a practice that trainers and veterinarians would almost never have good cause to administer registered products containing cobalt on consecutive days and that such administration would commonly be outside of manufacturer’s recommendations.†You'd have to be intentionally cheating big time to return even half those levels post race. As Gruff says, toast. No excuse or possible other reason. biff, GONSTA, Belinda and 1 other 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,089 Report post Posted June 23, 2015 I will have a guess.......Angus Arminasco. Now there was a real trainer. And not a drop of cobalt in sight I'd say. Grego and biff 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N1MUE 1,877 Report post Posted June 23, 2015 I backed Blue Wagon who ran 2nd to Suffire at Tauranga that day. I thought I got beaten by a better run, but looks like it might have been more than just the run. Hard enough to make a dollar betting on this game when it's all above board jess 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GONSTA 1,148 Report post Posted June 23, 2015 Wonder if they will be re testing some of the stables frozen swabs? Pure Champion winning a G1 would be #1 on my list. That's if they really want to do a PROPER investigation. aquaman, Gruff, ivanthegreat and 1 other 4 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lloyd Vivian 742 Report post Posted June 23, 2015 Angus Armanasco that would be. No 'i" biff 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby3051 10,929 Report post Posted June 23, 2015 ReillyM, on 23 Jun 2015 - 5:43 PM, said: Wonder if they will be re testing some of the stables frozen swabs? Pure Champion winning a G1 would be #1 on my list. That's if they really want to do a PROPER investigation. Do you have any proof or just your normal stirring... don't drag your nonsense in here please. Cheers. ADM 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slam dunk 1,317 Report post Posted June 23, 2015 Oh. I don't suppose this is the study you are quoting from? I didn't think to consider the human literature for autism cohorts. http://preventdisease.com/news/10/050310_vit_b12_cobalt.shtml This is a thoroughbred forum so let's stick to the equine research, eh? Fundamently still acts the same way. If you see a horse super quiet in the parade ring one day after it was in a muck lather the previous chances are the B12/Cobalt factor is digging in. Thats why pre race TV pictures are so helpful. Perhaps someone could tell me what they use on horses when transported by air. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby3051 10,929 Report post Posted June 24, 2015 ReillyM, on 23 Jun 2015 - 7:43 PM, said: Huh ? 3 of their horses just tested positive to cobalt... I didn't make an accusation, simply stating that would be my first pick of the 'frozens'... What rule have I broken?? You did you accused them of one of their horses having "something" extra to win a G1.. you are on thin ice...be careful...just a polite warning... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GONSTA 1,148 Report post Posted June 24, 2015 You did you accused them of one of their horses having "something" extra to win a G1.. you are on thin ice...be careful...just a polite warning... No I didn't. Please re-read my original post in question and show me where I've said the horse had something extra as you put it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scooby3051 10,929 Report post Posted June 24, 2015 ReillyM, on 24 Jun 2015 - 12:58 PM, said: No I didn't. Please re-read my original post in question and show me where I've said the horse had something extra as you put it? I think you inferred it and that is enough for me.. you want to keep going??? If I were you I would drop it..OK??? Is that enough warning?? Leggy and orphanpete 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grant R 348 Report post Posted June 26, 2015 2 Swabs that were tested in Perth have come back Positive as reported in Stuff on Friday, Suffire and Sound Proposition lets hope they get to the bottom of this quickly Leggy 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leggy 4,089 Report post Posted June 26, 2015 2 Swabs that were tested in Perth have come back Positive as reported in Stuff on Friday, Suffire and Sound Proposition lets hope they get to the bottom of this quickly http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/racing/69749380/two-more-cobalt-positives-confirmed-for-lance-osullivan-and-andrew-scott aquaman 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portfolio 728 Report post Posted June 26, 2015 If found guilty......which some high flyers sometimes are not...in both codes.....There needs to be changes. Fine them $100k.......Out of the game for 10 years... How many trainers would then push the limits!! Would be a few little chemist labs up for sale on trademe.......The P Lab boys would be rubbing their hands together ! aquaman, JOJAN, Huey and 2 others 5 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Portfolio 728 Report post Posted June 27, 2015 I have not known much about this drug.... But reading in the paper this morning I am amazed.... Limit here 200 micrograms per litre of urine, limit in Hong Kong 100 ? In its study done by the Hong Kong Jockey Club.... Horses were injected with Hemo-15, an iron, amino acid and b vitamin, ready available here, reached a maximum cobalt level in urine of 530 mcg/ L within 2 hours of administration. The level decreased rapidly and was below 200 in 6 - 12 hours ?? Funny....I always thought when I saw a trainer at the track with a stopwatch....he was there to time his horse running !! Maybe he was counting down the time to when his horse would be under the 200 limit !!! Oh dear......How simple would this be to run a horse hot and cold......The old punters have been fleeced yet again. 3 nags tested.....all ran the race of their lives....2 won, one 3rd in a big race....that says it all. Huey, kakama, awego and 4 others 7 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scotch Thistle 133 Report post Posted June 28, 2015 The 3 positive samples were taken during race days on 5 February, 28 February and 11 March. That is a period of 5 weeks over which skulduggery/misadventure saw cobalt improperly administered to O'Sullivan/Scott horses who raced. It took 3 months for any of the positives to be notified. How does a testing regime which takes so long to confirm positives square with racing integrity? How can RIU squander huge sums on futile persecution of a small industry player who has the balls to challenge the veracity of a blowhard figurehead when tests on samples taken from horses racing loaded with cobalt aren't available for months? In the name of racing integrity we are notified ahead of race day of changes in gear of uncertain relevance to performance (changes of bits or racing plates, cheek burrs, bandages, shadow rolls). Clearly we would be way better off being notified of changes to what is going down each horse's throat or being injected into them. aquaman, Los Lobos, elbow and 11 others 14 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevy86 2,710 Report post Posted June 28, 2015 I believe it was Hesi who got severely castigated on another posting on this site for daring to suggest that one of the implicated trainers had "form" (apologies being drafted??)--all I know is that Dave O'S will be experiencing the anguish that Roy Purdon had to endure during the "Blue Magic"investigation in the harness world a few years ago. aquaman 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chevy86 2,710 Report post Posted June 28, 2015 I have the impression that the RIU has been sitting on some of these test results to see if there is a "pattern of behaviour" from those that may have thrown up a positive. After all, stake-money is usually paid out 10-14 days after the race so 3 months is definitely a long "lag" period before irregularity disclosure--then again they could have been pre-occupied with more important matters such as Midget's racing terrorism. elbow and bloke 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gubellini 4,004 Report post Posted June 28, 2015 My guess is that this situation has arisen because of wrong advice about withholding periods. GONSTA and elbow 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Smallhaussen 3,226 Report post Posted June 28, 2015 The 3 positive samples were taken during race days on 5 February, 28 February and 11 March. That is a period of 5 weeks over which skulduggery/misadventure saw cobalt improperly administered to O'Sullivan/Scott horses who raced. It took 3 months for any of the positives to be notified. How does a testing regime which takes so long to confirm positives square with racing integrity? Can the RIU/NZTR give an assurance to all owners and trainers that swab samples taken on raceday are in fact tested? If your horse wins a race and a post race swab taken you wait a few weeks and hear nothing and stake money won is paid to the owner, I believe all owners and trainers should be advised the result of such swabs as soon as known, not just +ve swabs. This way integrity is upheld as it will be very clear that ALL swabs are tested. Ashoka and integrity 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jess 1,244 Report post Posted June 28, 2015 Yep it was I. Why would someone like Lance O'Sullivan go anywhere near anything that was not 100% legit. He is a rich man, the last thing he needs to do is doctor a horse so it can win a race. For what purpose, to pick up $10K on a sizeable wager, even 50K , why would he bother. If Lance O'Sullivan is implicated in this, then what hope is there for racing's image, being probably a person with integrity on a pedestal Not sure I'd have anyone on a pedestal Hesi - but I understand the point you make. I imagine L O'S's reputation and legacy (for want of a better word) is jealously guarded - and understandably so. So do you think this training partnership is a good "fit"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaceCafe News