Family number

[rodmc 0]

Could somebody please explain what this refers to?

My broodmare is family 7.

How many numbers are there?

What relevance does this have if any?

Thanks

[sunshine 0]

http://www.bloodlines.net/

http://www.tbheritage.com/

[reng 0]

Relevance - none, but there are plenty of theories around the use of it.

It's historically interesting, but that's about all, imo.

[kmhood 1]

It is an interesting journey tracing your mares family No 7 origins through the ancestors. In a little book written in 1978 family 7 originated in Britain & the ancestrress was Darcy's Black Legged Royal Mare, foaled between 1640 & 1720.

Up to 1978 in NZ they had 27 major classic winners of 50 major classic races. They arrived in NZ via Eleusis by Barcaldine - Mystery + Trumpeter through the2 Australian bred mares Elusive & Demeter. Elusive was brought to NZ by Baron Sir George Clifford in 1894 & Demeter in 1901 by Mr J F Ford.

They were responsible for 11 winners of 23 races (as @ 1978)

Lady Wayward by Ladas - Vane + Orme - Vampire was imported by Mr D G Greenwood in 1905 from UK. 6 winners of 11 races.

Tame Duck arrived from Uk in 1913 by Erlamor - Duckshot + Gallinule her family produced 5 winners of 8 races.

Trebelli by Thrush - Dramatica + St Simon came from UK in 1911 Imported for Mr J R Grigg.2 winners of 4 races.

Clythemnestra by Blair Athol - Dr. of Birdcatcher bred in Uk 1867 imported for the NZ Stud Co Ltd.

1 winner of 3 races.

Barbacan by Top Gallant - Colombia + Spearmint came from Aust 1928 for Mr J Donald. 1 winner of 1 race (Ichtar)

Queen Hestia by Precipitation (ADC) - Hestia came in 1951 for Mr D McKenzie produced Kartika (1966) won NZ cup but no classic races. So 0 winners of 0 races.

Legality by Noblesse Oblige - Permissable + Myram came from UK in 1925 Imported to NZ for Auckland Stud Co Ltd. produced Balgowan in 1942 who won 2 classic races.

In 1978 the no 7 family was 5th best classic family in NZ. Have no idea where this family comes in 2010 production wise but maybe Rich has a statistic on that somewhere. The Bruce Lowe numbers come in handy when wanting to go through stallions quickly when searching for a special line. As Reng says - they are only a reference really though some people have their favourite numbers.

[rodmc 0]

Thank you sunshine,Renee and Kay.

It is interesting stuff but the family number does not seem to change. My mare has had 2 foals by two different sires and their family number is 7 also they are both colts?

(both bred on an out cross)

When does a family number change?

I do agree with Renee's thoughts but am always open to ideas.

[kmhood 1]

When your mare is family 7 - it is taken from her bottom pedigree line. So her daughters and sons would always be family 7. Her daughters & their progeny would always be 7, down the line.

Her sons will be 7, but if they have progeny they will always be numbered from their damline.

[rodmc 0]

So does that mean that the families are made up from a group of matriarch's?

Are these mares the foundations to the big 3 (Darley, Godolphin, Byerley Turk)?

Or did they have produce from these founding fathers?

[kmhood 1]

One of the sites you can trace your mare's ancestry back to is to visit pedigreequery.com - this site is free to access this information. Just keep clicking on the bottom line mare until you get back to her roots.

You can also read one or two books on the Matriarch mares. Clive Harper has written one, The Broodmare Book & another I have is Matriarchs, Great Mares of the 20th Century - Edward L Bowen.

Ken McLean - Genetic Heritage is another.

There are lots of books out there - ask questions - there are always plenty of people willing to share on this site, many of them have been breeding for 40 years or more - their information is invaluable. I often print off info which I find useful from these online experts who are so willing to share.

Bruce Lowe. in the late 1800's put together the numbers, numbering them from 1, 2, 3 etc in the order of what he considered to be the strongest mares, producing the best progeny to race.

[kmhood 1]

In the thread below this one:-

Sire Performances Jan 2010

you will find a wealth of information with pedigrees, complete with their Bruce Lowe numbers. You can get an idea of how these families are developing through their matriarch mares when carefully mated to Stallions whose families 'nick' with their mares, producing today's racehorse winners. Clive Harper's latest book is Patterns on Patterns & I am sure on reading Rich's statistics it may be possible to see.

[Peter Jenkins 2,120]

So does that mean that the families are made up from a group of matriarch's?

Are these mares the foundations to the big 3 (Darley, Godolphin, Byerley Turk)?

Or did they have produce from these founding fathers?

Hi Rod. Others here have answered most of your questions. The "founding fathers" were varied and many - all horses must have a mother and father after all. The celebrated 3 are simply the only ones whose sirelines have survived through to modern times. Their were many other foundation stallions. The taproot mares to which the Bruce Lowe numbers trace were of a variety of breeds and either they or their daughters and granddaughters etc., were mated with the numerous "founding fathers".

Think of the Bruce Lowe mare system as an identification system (and quite a flawed one as revealed by recent genetic research) identical to that of Oxford University's Human Matriline project. A map of direct tail-female ancestry.

As Renee has said, it doesn't mean a lot in modern terms.

[rodmc 0]

Thanks everybody. I have a lot of reading to do.

[2piglets 0]

this is a good site http://www.tbheritage.com explains bruce lowe numbers etc. goto historic dams then female families.