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Like any law abiding citizen, whether involved in the greyhound industry or not, I find the allegations against Mr Cole very disappointing and if true put the livelihood of many good, honest, hardworking people in jeopardy. As well we will loose respect for our industry. One has to question his motives and integrity. Surely a simple and honest statement of all the facts from his perspective is all that is needed. Failure to do this is very damaging to us all.

Your a forgiving soul aquaman. One bloke taints the whole greyhound industry and you blame it all on the fact that others are jealous of his success. Instead of looking out for the best interests of the industry it appears you think these jealous witnesses have some sort of agenda to bring down an industry because of envy.Interesting theory. One of the witnesses said he had worked for others and never been involved in such practices until working for cole. Did your industry not learn anything from the fallout in australia? I would have thought it common sense that trainers go on the offensive and make it clear to all and sundry that if true this behavior will not be tolerated, we instead have a lot looking for reasons not to believe it. Amazing the head in the sand approach going on here.

Nothing more than a witch hunt here Hedley. Lets look at the evidence thus far. Some blurry poor quality photos of what appears to be B Cole and another person tying something on the end of a line. It could be an untanned skin from a shot or dead rabbit, or for that matter, a road kill. Then again it could be Grannies old fur coat chopped up, it could also be artificial fur, or an old rag. We have two employees giving evidence, one a former worker whom has his voice disguised and face hidden claiming Cole live baited whilst he worked there with chickens on a weekly basis. The other employee defends Cole and says he never ever saw any evidence of this practice, who do you believe. Now I am not defending Cole for one minute, what I am defending is the facts in this matter, and from what I know of the case, they seem to be few and far between. It appears Cole is guilty of winning to many races, and dominating the CD, and the roots of this investigation is born out of jealousy. It has become a lynch mob mentality. Again I say, regardless whether Cole is guilty or not, this whole fiasco, and the lack of real evidence shows just how dangerous this has become to all and sundry connected to the sport. The NZGRA need to put up, or shut up. They have had months to wind this up, instead they have allowed rumour and lie's to take over.

I'm saying this crosses the line. Three different former employees saying live baiting took place is more than scant little evidence. They have no doubt come forward with the best interests of your industry at heart. Being critical of those that have come forward is not the proper way to look at it.

I said enough...I don't care about the public domain the people concerned deserve a fair crack as nothing is proven yet... so l won't allow them to be tried by a bunch of no name internet wannabes before they get that chance... end of story.

Lets wait for the outcome of the case first otherwise I will shut it down...thanks...innocent until proven otherwise... end of story.

In court, he apparently told the judge; "some have a weakness for booze, some a weakness for smoking, some a weakness for horses, some a weakness for women, your honour I am blessed I have them all". Horseracing folklore forever. RIP Hayden, you left a mark on life :-)

Will be front an centre (ah depending how early I get there, could be little of centre) at The Park Fri hot dang! some awesome horses in, and one of me favs The Mighty Spur is back yeeuhh (fist pump), oh gawd hope he gets through safe no more injuries etc, nuts The Ruby is in his race (can't wait to see her again) Vincent, The Chase (can't wait to see The Reactor's boy have a go round) ooh actually shapin for a goodnights viewin...... Cheers Iraklis

i think they are very fair its not the 1st time they have asked and he has provided he is unfit to interview yet claims he is still fit to train, if hes not fit to conduct a interview then his license should be gone , hard but under racing rules in an also in any indurstry its better for them to be seeking help and getting right than keep going

Interesting story that. Does anyone have any faith in the RIU to properly investigate cases like that anyway? This case just proves that point. Its actually easier to now understand why some of the greyhound participants have conflict with each other. It must be frustrating when you tell authorities of illegal practices but they are incapable,or unwilling of doing anything about it

There must be at least 3 or 4 races every meeting, especially on grass tracks, when the No 1 horse is held by a starters assistant, even to the point when he lets the field start and the assistant is pushing the horses head straight to get it underway. Horses on the unruly or wide out are also often held right up to start time. No such clearing of the track 30 sec before the start. This is obviously common practice to help the horses begin and also assist the punter who wants to get a run for his money. Whether its legal or an unwritten rule is something that maybe only the stipes can clarify.

I do not agree with Scooby as many other cases have been discussed on this site, the comments sometimes more disgusting than the crime. But Scooby holds the power. I never brought this subject to the table, I never posted the media clips, but once the info was out in the open, like most cases, people have opinions and the right to question what has been presented. God knows the questions are being asked all over the country. My last comment is this: If this was not sport connected, would you and those who support your view be flying the fair trial banner? Nothing anyone has said here is going to have any influence on the outcome. That will happen behind closed doors.

You are free to go... shut the door behind you...cheers. If you think Leo keeps it alive you are sadly mistaken... you get this for free and you still want to have a go at me.. well please leave...I do not do this for you to have the pleasure of taking potshots... if this was a debate i would have no problem but its more of a lynch mob...cheers.

See you just never know when to quit... always have to have the last word... fark you must be difficult to live with.

HRNZ produce guidelines i.e not rules and are published on their website under information tag,its legal to use a lead rope but as all starters assistants must clear the track heaven rocks probably shouldn,t have had a rope or starters assistant,puts alot of pressure on starter and assistant .then again unruly horse are much easier to lead around by rope and nothing worse than having starter assistant grab reins instead collar strap..after starter blows whistle at 30 seconds starters assistant must vacant the track and can only assist at starters request,this is probably why so many horse are only given one chance before been sent u/r,interesting that once a starter says "right" it cannot be a false start unless there is danger to particapants

not being bitter and twisted isn't cheerleading

It is in the rules and any trainer worth a pinch of salt will know it availeable.Good on Nat for using the rules to her advantage

8 should be fine given it is an even number.

We all know Christen Me would win in USA. that proves nothing what does matter abrilliant horse nearing retirement is as Flagship says is pumped full of Furosemide to negate stress and chronic pain which leads to bleeding in the lungs. and enables the purchasers to get a few more dollars from him. Shame on the nz owners who callously sold him after making them a fortune.. This medication is necessary for every race and is listed beside christen me every time he lines up!

Cheers guys. We get a lot of help from a lot of different people to whom we are grateful. Happy racing. Jared.

I am aware of that now, and i find that troubling. It was not gazetted according to the NZGRA's own rule book. Putting that aside, to include untanned skins, or road kills, or rabbits you have shot is a nonsense, and needs to be overturned. There is a huge difference between live baiting, and using the skin of a dead animal. The use of the word dead baiting is emotive and wrong, and is clearly an over reaction to animal right activists, and will only empower them towards their real agenda of shutting down Greyhound racing altogether. One must beer in mind, it does not matter how much you cave in to these activists, it will never be enough, because the end game is the destruction of Greyhound racing full stop. At some point you need to stop retreating, and stand and fight for your beliefs. That time has come. Expunge dead baiting from the rule book, it only weakens the rule on live baiting which should be the focus of the Industry. The 16 yrs given to the poor bloke in Australia for using an untanned skin is outrageous, and hopefully when it gets before a real judge will be overturned.

Right on Queue, Haha

Good factual post so unlikely to get any traction form 3 Musketeers, that's precisely why i offered the number of stipes so Brodie could find out the answer instead of his usual whinging on this forum about RIU and the TAB

They all see it, but they all know that true reform would involve most if not all of the current mob losing their jobs if/when it happened. So instead, like snake oil merchants, they invent apparent miracle cures which they somehow sell to the codes/industry to buy time. None of the current mob KNOW that race fields legislation or the new fixed odds betting platform is the real answer because they clearly aren't. But they don't have to, all they have to do is convince the idiots on the board that they are the answer to buy them a year or two more in their positions. Run, Seabiscuit, Run!!

Yes!! definitely one of those "What were you thinking"?? moments!!.........total amateurs in the end.

As I said I am happy after the case has been heard for a full and robust debate however it is all still to be decided... so please lets just hold our tongues shall we.

After watching the news item yesterday I have to say I'm disappointed in The Cole's if it is all true. After seeing the photos for the first time on the news I can say for myself they are a bit hard to see but I'm no photo expert. I will be joining Scooby & a few other posters on this 1 & just sit on the fence to see what comes out at the end of it all (that is if there ever will be an end to the investigation) before I pass judgement on it. I still think this whole investigation is taking to long to sort out though.

When she won a race called Queen of something or other, for the 4th time in a row , the crowd went nuts and were beating on all the rubbish bins out front, made a hell of a noise. Unforgettable !

I apologize for the comment re bull ring Emma wasnt meaning you personally.

What? Consensus played up in the gates that day while Kawi was being mollycoddled out the back for at least two minutes before loading then she was posted off the track for the first 600 including being half run off after 200m. In the meantime Kawi had a beautiful run behind the leaders on the fence got out in plenty of time but couldn't make up the leeway. Swap the runs and she would have won it easy(the second year in succession she should have won that G1 race - they year before Girl of My Dreams and Volkstock'nbarrell tried to knock the poor bitch over close to the line) I don't think anyone is claiming she is a better horse however - maybe just a little underrated given the bad luck she has encountered in some of the better races she has started in. The Kawi issue is the same as Xtravagent - there are some horses the media falls in love with and those two are two examples. One thing he definitely should not be getting away with is this always being last loaded. He would not get away with it in Aussie so why does he here? And the Coldplay late load shows they have forgotten about the decree that wearing a barrier blanket does not entitle a horse to load last. Bottom line it advantages the horse concerned and should not be allowed. You should load in barrier order and whats more there seems to be a norm now where the majority load then stand for minutes awaiting the late loaders. get em in and get em on their way!

Ring the following and get the answer if it means that much to you. Better still given you are never happy on here with the RIU why dont you take court action if what you concluded was not legal and seek procedural damages. Nick Ydgren Chief Stipendiary Steward (HR) Christchurch 021 964 120

What we have actually is a lot of trainers being sensible and waiting for the outcome, just because they choose not to join the lynch mob does not mean they do not care about the outcome.

And who could never forget one of Delightful Lady's Auckland Cup wins when she took off about 600 out and crowd went ballistic. ? One that stands out is Lord Modules incredible NZ Cup after being slow away. Only Cup I've been there for and amazing scenes when he got up. Not so happy was normally affable Max Robinson who Ces Devine carved up and knocked whip right out of his hand. Down by fence when Max came back and he was cursing, some punter suggested he go and punch Ces in the head, which Max seemed to go along with. From memory was long enquiry before Lord Module kept the race.

I will probably be down next year to watch our horses run. This year hasn't allowed it due to work and family living with us. Hope to catch up at a different track this time. Enjoy yr Xmas mate

So, if we are to believe that the two horses are on a par, one racing in stronger competition in the North, the other picking up easier wins in the CD - given that one horse has won 7 Group 1's from 37 starts and collected NZD1.3 million, and the other one Group 1 from 40 starts and NZD424k - are we saying that one of these horses has been poorly placed?

I dont think most of u people actually understand the severity of the situation. It doesnt matter what u or i think (at this point anyone actually suggesting it wasnt going on is delusional). Its what the public perceive the issue to be. Could be dark times ahead for the industry if the biggest trainer in the country is found guilty of these charges. anyone who is on here defending him is making the situation that much worse.

I didnt think we were comparing horses from different eras. You know that Lazarus will never end up in the US. All the money in the US is for young horses now and Laz has gone past that age. When Quinny etc went over there it was all about aged races. This has now changed and the money in Australasia is far greater than the Us and risking sending a top horse over to race for peanuts.ie Christen Me. Only trotters can race for big bucks overseas and thats not in the US. Also the horses you mention were geldings and had no future value in NZ unlike Lazarus who will probably earn more off the track than on it when his career ends and it wont be at 12 years old. He is already the greatest Group One winning horse in Australasia and is on to become the greatest stakewinning horse in the near future, thou this is irrelevant with the increasing stake monies available it will still be a noteworthy achievement.

Gruff you're just a clueless pup. I've been watching trotting races for almost 50 years. I vividly remember Johnny Globe winning the 1968 Banks Peninsula Trotting Cup with Wes Butt in the sulky. Had a decent wager on Junior's Image in the 1971 Interdom final at Addington and clearly recall the aftermath 5 days later. Spent a few days at Colin McDonald's place back in 1971 trainer of Hakim who became a cup class pacer. Those would be my earliest memories. I doubt you even go back to the eighties.

Me

I do tend to agree with this. As I understand it our potential saviour is going to be the ability to "sell" our racing product to overseas markets. Unfortunately people don't seem to factor in that our product is largely second rate and unattractive to overseas markets who can access racing from all around the world. Once punters overseas realise that our form is almost impossible to follow with any confidence they will quickly abandon the novelty of betting on NZ Racing. Our only advantage really is going to be the possibility to find a time slot niche so we appeal to punters somewhere needing an instant fix, so we are pretty much the equivalant of a Gundagai but in a vacant time slot. On that subject I do wonder what this Auckland idea of running twilight meetings like last Saturday does for overall turnover. It may attract some people on course for parties, but I can't see it doing much for off course turnover as it clashes head-on with premier racing from Australia in that time slot. I may be quite wrong of course as I have no idea what their turnover was like.

Sorry Paul, you may be right in regard to Ray Huxley but I would suggest that while Lazarus is maybe the best we have seen for some time and I am not diminishing his accomplishments he wouldn't blow smoke up either Cardigan Bays or Young Quinn's arseholes. The best ever? Sorry bud not in a million years. I would love to see him race in America untill he was 10 or 11 , be barred from betting in their greatest comp because he was to good or race in an Auckland Cup at 12 after being put back into training and running FORTH.

When you have watched harness for 50 yrs ( like I have) the great horses come and go. Lazarus is the champion of his age/ era . Comparing is futile. The Aussie commentator hasn't been around long enough . He missed seeing a horse like Young Quinn for just one example. We can wax lyrical as long as we like about who we think the greatest is or was. Just sit back and enjoy the ride. Horses of this calibre are a joy to watch.

ROFLMAO Who did you phone ? What did they say ?

At least the way they did it ensures the grandstand remains.

Sounds like a Brodfact. How do you know it was not available ? Who wanted it and wasn't allowed it ?

Who has been declined this service ?

Given variations of this practice have been going on with this horse since March this year Brodstipe jnr in waiting seems to have ticked the "don't rush things" box.

Only if needed.

LOL Why is he wondering today ? NO

Any evidence the others wanted this and were declined ?